Roman Manfredi: Using Film Photography to Highlight Underrepresented Communities
In this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast, Angela Nicholson welcomes the inspiring and talented Roman Manfredi, a dedicated film photographer with a unique perspective on visual storytelling. Roman began their career at the age of 16, working as a darkroom assistant and, after taking many years away from photography, has since developed a distinctive style that amplifies voices that are often underrepresented in visual arts. From capturing local community stories to exploring the intersections of identity, class, and gender, Roman’s work stands as a powerful testament to the importance of visibility and inclusivity in photography.
Listen to another episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast
Throughout the episode, Roman delves into their journey from picking up a second-hand camera to documenting lives and communities close to their heart. Their project We/Us serves as an example of their commitment to creating an archive that highlights the LGBTQ+ community in the UK. Driven by a passion for representation, Roman shares how the project was inspired by their realisation of a lack of butch and stud lesbian representation in British visual media. Now, their work is archived at the Bishopsgate Institute, preserving these important narratives for future generations.
Listeners will also hear Roman reflect on the tactile beauty and creative limitations of shooting film versus digital photography. For Roman, film photography not only requires careful thought and patience but also a deep understanding of light and colour. They explain how the slower pace of film photography forces them to embrace the imperfections in their work, a challenge they have come to love as it allows them to capture raw, authentic moments. This dedication to capturing people as they are—often without smiles and with the grit of life’s realities—is what defines Roman’s photographic style.
Roman’s commitment to showcasing diverse voices continues with their latest project, Fair Play, featuring the women and non-binary development and reserve teams of the Clapton Community Football Club. This project, they explain, represents their drive to document the strength, presence, and diversity within community sports, providing a counter-narrative to the often glossy portrayal of female athletes. Listeners gain insight into Roman’s artistic process and how they approach photography not only as an art form but also as a means of activism.
Whether you’re a film enthusiast or a lover of authentic storytelling, this episode offers inspiration and insights from a photographer who never stops exploring new techniques and ideas. Roman’s dedication to film, their nuanced approach to visual storytelling, and their love for the art of photography are sure to resonate with listeners who are interested in the power of images to convey personal and collective histories.
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This podcast is supported by MPB, the world's largest platform for used photography and videography kit. MPB has transformed the way people buy, sell and trade equipment, making photography more accessible, affordable and sustainable. MPB is proud to partner with SheClicks to help support women photographers and their work.
Episode Transcript
Roman Manfredi
You never stop learning with film. There's just so many things I want to try, and I'm really, really excited. I mean, I just hope I live long enough to be able to try all these things and all these projects that I want to do.
Angela Nicholson
Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson, and I'm the founder of SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I talk with women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them and how they got to where they are now,. This episode is with Roman Manfredi, who, at 16, began working as a darkroom assistant and used a second hand camera to photograph friends. Since then, Roman's work, which often focuses on amplifying working class voices, has been exhibited globally. Their project fair play features the women and non binary development and reserve teams at Clapton community Football Club. Roman is also one of the four winners of the 70: 15:40 Project, which aims to address the under representation of women, trans and non binary people in visual storytelling.
Hi Roman. Thank you so much for joining me today on this podcast.
Roman Manfredi
Thank you for having me.
Angela Nicholson
Very welcome. Now I know when you left school, you started work as a dark room assistant, and you bought a second hand camera to photograph your friends, but what was it that inspired you to do that?
Roman Manfredi
Because I was working for photographers, and the fact that I could process my own and develop and print my own photos, that made it hugely accessible. So I could print really light, you know, I took pictures of some people in a mat in a local mannequin factory, and I could print those quite big in color for nothing. So it was that. And there was somebody came and did work experience from the from the US, and we became friends, and she had a nick on, and that was my aspiration. And maybe I couldn't afford a nickel, but we used to go out and take pictures together. And I think that was really, what did it really being in that environment,.
Angela Nicholson
And what was it that attracted you to the job as a darkroom assistant? Was it just chance that that was an available job and you got it, or did you actually specifically look for it?
Roman Manfredi
No, I didn't specifically look for it. My mum handed me the local paper, which was the Islington Gazette, and she just said, Look, get a job. And I think I was only like, then it just turned really 16, so I was a child looking back on it, and because I really loved art, but I knew that that wasn't accessible to me, or especially around that time, for a working class woman, you know, from an estate going to art school was not even on the radar. So I looked for the most creative job I could find in that paper, and then I saw this dark criminal system, and I thought, oh, that sounds a bit different, because where I grew up in Kings Cross at that time, but it was all full of factories, and that's where, you know, people tended to work locally. And it was quite local to where I lived was a couple of bus stops away, so that sort of fit within everything. But I was also trying to move away from, trying to move outside of, really, not, not having a lot of opportunities, I would say, or support, really, to to sort of go further in life. So that was the beginning of that, really.
Angela Nicholson
And did they train you up in the art of processing film and producing prints?
Roman Manfredi
Yeah, I used to, I hand process colour film. So the photographers, it was a photography studio. The photographers would work downstairs, and they trained me to to it was a huge responsibility. I felt it was like all this big, really, big responsibility. Obviously, they trained me to print them as well. So, yeah, they were quite large. I mean, it wasn't a SSnappy Snaps, you know, it was quite a sort of a high quality print lab, which was upstairs from studios.
Angela Nicholson
Did you have much creative license with the prince, or were you sort of very much directed in how much dodging and burning and things to do?
Roman Manfredi
You sort of learnt as you went along, really, but it was your decision how much cyan or blue or red or yellow. You know what I mean, you put in. We were trained, you know, we had the gelatin filters. We'd have five cyan. You'd look at, you'd look at your test strip, and then you get your filters, and you go, it looks a bit red. And then you looked at it through the five cyan, the 10 cyan, 20 cyan, whatever. Yeah. So I learned, I learned that. I learned that how negatives worked, how color worked within that industry, you know, I guess it really helped me in my last projects, we asked, because I didn't work with the printer, you know, I'd go down and we look at the test prints, and my eye is quite acutely attracted to that. So I really kind of enjoyed working with color after 50 odd cheese or whatever it was, like, it's a long time. Between that and me working with with colour film.
Angela Nicholson
It sounds like a brilliant place to learn and get really good grounding in colour theory and practice.
Roman Manfredi
Yeah
Angela Nicholson
You continue to shoot with film. Have you shot with digital cameras at all?
Roman Manfredi
I sold that camera and I bought, I bought tickets to San Francisco when I was a teenager. So that changed the course of my life, and it and I stopped taking I stopped photography altogether. So I didn't pick up the camera again until I wanted to do we asked, and I chose. I mean, I went to art school in my 40s, so I wasn't I'm not trained as a photographer. I haven't had any formal training in that respect, and I knew that because I knew the project I'm wanting to do, and I knew the way to represent my community was, was photography really, it was the most accessible way. And so I tried using a digital I bought a digital camera, I just couldn't really connect with this sort of big lump of plastic and this sort of big lens and, you know, and all the menus were quite overwhelming, and I wasn't really, I was struggling, you know, wasn't really getting the results that were in my heart sing, you know. And that's a really good indication to me. When I've got something that I want to pursue. It's interesting because I had three friends with Hasselblad film cameras, and one of them that just said, look, I think you really think you need to shoot on film. And they put the Hasselblad in my hand, and another friend was like, Oh yeah, I've got one. You can use it for as long as you like. So I started off, and it wasn't an instant connection. I really liked the physicality of it. I loved the way it slotted together. I loved the sound it made. I love as it clicked together. And there were all these things you couldn't make mistakes, you know, if the dark slide was in, you couldn't take you know, there were all these kind of it was just such a beautiful object that I pursued it. And then it was around that time, I think before that, actually, Ingrid, Ingrid Pollard had come into my life, and we become friends. And she was like, yeah, definitely like, come on, come over. Let's shoot on my Hasselblad. And she kind of taught me a little bit about that, so I had this kind of support around that. And everyone was saying they could see it before I could see it, that I'm a film photographer, and that's why it wasn't working on digital.
Angela Nicholson
Do you think there's something about the constraints of film as well? Because, you know, you've got, what, 10, 12, frames on a roll. Whereas digital, there is a temptation to keep shooting until it gets dark, basically.
Roman Manfredi
Oh yeah, yeah, exactly that. And you really are forced to live with the failure of your work so you've got, you've only got 12 on a roll. I mean, I shoot even less now. Now I'm shooting like half a roll per person, whereas, when I started, I was shooting two or three roles, because I just was insecure about whether I'd got it or not. And even then, you know, I mean, I learned the other day that Richard Avedon took 17,000 photographs on negatives, and then thinking, I think they, I think about 82 went in the book and and that, that's a really kind of good reminder that you're not going to be in love with every image. And every now and then there's a sort of an alchemy, synchronicity situation that happens in its white wall. And yes, so I do like the parameters. I like the simplicity of you just have this essentially a black box. You have lights, you have your person that you're working with, and you have yourself. And so it's, it's, it's really, really paired back. And that works well for me. And plus, I like the element of, you know, no, I can't shoot a 12,000 ISO crack and on a digital cat or any all that crazy stuff. Love learning about how the film responds to lie and the different film grains. Now I've gone into a complete rabbit hole with that, with the whole situation. Now that I'm also developing my own film. It's all about all different developers and different development times. And I've absolutely found something that, not only but this, that you never stop learning with film. There's just so many things I want to try, and I'm really, really excited. I mean, I just hope I live long enough to be able to try all these things and all these projects that I want to do.
Angela Nicholson
I think it's fantastic when you find something like that that really excites you. You can't wait to discover more and more about it. As an aside, do you use a waist level finder or an eye level finder?
Roman Manfredi
At the moment, I'm with the Hasselblad. I'm using the prism finder. You know the eye level prism find that everything. Is the right way up, yeah. But I'm really looking at a different camera now, and I want to start using the waist level finder. There's two that I'm drawn with. I'm drawn to the Mamiya RZ 67 because I quite like the the focusing dial to not be on the lens. That that's really nice. And I'm also looking at like a rolly or something like that, because I quite like the feeling of having the camera close to your body, on your body, and then you're looking down into the ways up. It's a very, very different dynamic with all these different ways of of using, how, how it's, how it's going to perform f or you. So,
Angela Nicholson
Yeah
Roman Manfredi
so, yeah, I'm really, really excited about trying those things out in the future. And I also use a map camera as well. I bought that with the award money from this project, from 70:15: 40, I thought, you know, this is it. I've been wanting to do this. And what I realised was, I did do, I did do a couple with that for this project. I did the shots of the ground, but with the shots the portraits, I went back to my Hasselblad because it was just awkward. You know, I was out in these football fields in Wayne rain and all sorts of things. And it was, it was just kind of making it a little bit stressful for me and for them. So I just thought, you know what? Just go back. You're not ready.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, can understand that.
Roman Manfredi
Certainly. I love that as well, and I want to sort of work more, work more with that one as well in the future. So the possibilities are endlessly film. It really is just extraordinary, the whole thing.
Angela Nicholson
And have you stuck with entirely traditional processing and printing, or have you processed your films and then do you scan them at all and there's a digital process?
Roman Manfredi
Well, We/Us was, I wasn't good enough at that stage to print directly from the negatives. So We/Us was shot on film. It was then scanned with a drum scanner, and then we printed it through the chemical process so it had a digital intervention in that and that. Some of them were tweaked a little bit, and my exposures weren't always great, but it was such an important project. I mean, now I'm much more experienced, and I I'm definitely getting better. It's completely different printing off a negative as well. With this project, the printer is printing from the negative, and it's going in the chemicals, and it's a, really like, it's a, it's quite a different look. And it's, you know, you're in the presence of something that is alive. I wouldn't say it is more. It's alive for me, whereas the digital process can be flattening and a bit deadening, but that's just what works for me. You know, it has a different aliveness to it. It's, it's just had a lot more love and care put into it.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, there's also that connection, isn't there, to the history of photography, which is quite appealing. I think, you know, you're doing something in a very similar way. Okay, the chemicals have moved on a bit that the cameras have moved on, but the process is basically the same. That's quite intriguing and exciting.
Roman Manfredi
Yeah. I mean, it's kind of quite amazing. I mean, I'm even starting to think about my next project, and just thinking about using even more sort of historical processes, but in this contemporary context. And I think that's that's really, really interesting, that that, yeah, you can still use these cameras from 1901, if you can find those old ones. And you know, they're really trippy to see through, to focus and stuff like that. So that is quite extraordinary. Like all of these cameras are still available, which is brilliant.
Angela Nicholson
Now you've mentioned your project, We/Us a couple of times. That was only last year, wasn't it that that that was exhibited, but it seems to have been quite a breakthrough for you.
Roman Manfredi
Yeah, yeah. It really has. When you get this sort of support. I mean, I really love the photography community. It's really different to to the art community. For example, there just seems to be more opportunities, and it's just a different thing altogether, I guess. And I find it very inclusive, really. And, yeah, the opportunities are constant for photography, because, obviously with social media, you know, how we consume images, I was very aware of that when I embarked on with us, because, and that was one of the reasons I did it, because when I Googled butch stud lesbian UK, there was nothing there. And now you can Google that, and my work will be included along with the stuff that you see from the US. So it was very much, in terms of my community, my identity was very much led by the US. And it was like, Well, what that we exist here? And it was also a way of archiving, so those that work is now archived in Bishopsgate Institute, and it will be there forever for future generations. Wow, that is fantastic, and that must feel very rewarding, but also very empowering for you, because you've done something which has kind of put a line in history. Yeah. And really, to be honest, that's all I thought about. I didn't think about the opportunities that have come since then, but that's like an extraordinary situation that I'm in now. And I'm also won an award to do a project next year, which I'm not allowed to talk about. But again, it's kind of on the back of that, that project and mixed with what has become a really deep connection, a deep relationship that I have with photography itself, yeah, the loss of film on cameras and the whole process of it, even though it's infuriating, like any marriage, if you like, yeah, it's extraordinary. So late, you know, at my age, I feel like, well, this is the beginning. This is another beginning of my career. And in a way, it's really, really interesting that the guy that's printing my work now for this project I worked with when I was 16, but he was in the black and white department, and I was in the color department, and I kind of found this guy by charms, and it's kind of like this, this cyclical, this, this healing in the 70s, you know, like, is a extraordinarily sexist time. I mean, I was groped in the dark rooms. The thing was just like, it was just Benny Hill. It was all normal. And, you know, with the content of this work as well. It's this kind of, I feel this amazing. It's like an opportunities that I couldn't have then are happening now, and I'm it's just an extraordinary sort of situation. And it is all about, I think creativity is a lot about, sometimes healing those parts of yourself. That has been my experience of pursuing art. You know, there's just so many kind of layers.
Angela Nicholson
What was it that originally inspired you to start the We/Us project?
Roman Manfredi
The need for representation.
Angela Nicholson
So it was that, just that gap?
Roman Manfredi
I wasn't a photographer before that, I that's not what I did, and that's why I just thought, well, someone's got to do it. I'll do it. I think what happens is I just kind of look at what's out there, or I I see a space, and then, okay, there's a there's a need for representation in that space, and I see that space, and then I move into that space, and that seems to be something that I'm that is quite a cool thing with me, like what needs to be said here and what, what can I do to facilitate that? I mean, obviously it's my voice as well as their voices. So I think the conversation about identity and class within queer communities is something that I felt could do with putting out there, especially like queer culture, it's very academic, it's very northern European, Northern American led, and it's all about identity politics. And I just was interested in the lived experience, because I know what my lived experience is, as particularly was in manual labor, you know, and why did I do manual labor, you know what I mean? And so all of that, I just thought, you know what I and I want to hear different accents. I want to hear people who I want to hear Geordies and brummies and Cockneys and, you know, I want to hear everybody in an art context. So it's a little bit of a declassing. People say, decolonizing, declassing an art environment, and I hope to do my bit in disrupting that. I mean, I'm not the first person that's done that, but in continuing to do that and bringing more accessibility to people from those in from those environments.
Angela Nicholson
Did you self fund that project?
Roman Manfredi
No, it was partly Arts Council funding.
Angela Nicholson
That's quite interesting, that you were stepping into photography for the first time. You said you weren't a photographer before then, but you had the confidence to apply for funding
Roman Manfredi
Only because I'd already received a developer in your creative practice grant from there. So that's when I was tried the digital stuff out, and I started going around the country, and that sort of helped me look into different things and research and stuff like that. And then I met somebody who helped me think about Arts Council funds in there's no way I would have I didn't even know how to do a timeline. I didn't know I've never, I've never done an Excel spreadsheet. So I needed some dyslexic as well. And all of this screen stuff drives me up the wall. I met somebody you know, and this has been my journey of I've had generosity after generosity, and I actually. Met somebody. He was a photographer, but he was also a project manager. And he was like, Oh yeah, I'll give you an hour a week, not going to charge you. I believe in your project. And he taught me how to get to that, you know, you have to have this one sentence. You have to say your whole project in a sentence. And that's hence the title being, that was the title, which is a sub working class battle, but you had to say it in one sentence, so that they they knew exactly what it was in that one sentence. And so I just, I just use that as a title in the end.
Angela Nicholson
That's great advice, I think, because there's so many times I've read someone's project proposal and it's a whole sheet of paper, and at the end of it, I'm still a bit confused about what their actual project is. So being able to condense it down to something so succinct, I think, is a real valuable asset.
Yeah, Fair Play, the project you're working on for the 17:15:40 exhibition is about players for the Clapton community football clubs that the women are non binary development and reserves teams. What led you to them?
Roman Manfredi
Well, the great thing about awards like this is it really forces you to do something, and I knew I wanted to try black and white, and I knew I wanted to use this new camera, and so I was looking for a new project, and it was either going to be community women's football or female security guards. And I thought, right, I'm gonna, let's try the community football. So I just, I looked up, um, I Googled it, what's the closest one? What's, what's any what are the games going on tomorrow? And and I see Clapton. So I arrived at Clapton, and the first, I've never been there, and it's not in Clapton, it's in forest gate. So get there, and the first thing I noticed is the sound, and there's all these Drumming and singing. And I was like, Oh my God, yes, this is it. Even before I saw the ground, I was like, yeah, here we go. Here we go. This is because there's, I love to use sounds in my work. And so when I got in, it was like, it was like something from the 70s. It was like football used to be when I was a kid. It was real, this community element. And it was very clear at the ground that it was a very, very political right. And you know, there were banners in support of Palestine. There was anti racism, anti homophobe, anti you know, everything was there. And I was just like, Yes, this is it. And then it was a series of synchronicity moments, and I just was standing, and I just said, turned around to this person next to me and said, Oh, actually, I really want to do a project with this, the women's team. And she said, Well, funnily enough, one of the coaches from the women's team is is a good friend of mine, and she's coming to the game. And then she there she was, and we were introduced. We had an email. We met, and straight away we connected. So they were all the indications to me that, okay, I'm on this is it? You know, let's, let's just give this, let's just give this a go. It's been a struggle because I've spent a lot of time with my kit, my trip office, heavy film camera, you know, traipsing through fields and football field, so trying to find where they're playing and stuff like that. Mostly it's in Hackney marshes. I mean, I know where I am now, so I can get there quite quickly. But at the beginning, it was tricky, and I really wanted to capture them after a game. So the reason I wanted to capture them after a game is because I felt I just didn't it was a bit of, like I said before I saw that space. You know, we have corporate football. We have women's football now, and it's corporate, but they're airbrushed there. There's a certain look to them. And, you know, and I really wanted these photos that were black and white, that had grain, they had a bit of grit on them, that they were sweating, that they were after the game, and I felt after the game they're quite present in their bodies. So that's really, really important in my work, I tend not to photograph people smiling, because I feel that's with the smile you bounce off to smile, but with when you don't have that and you just have the person just present, it kind of lets you into something a bit more and especially with black and white, because you can bounce off color as well. And I think so there was that, that reasoning for what was one of the things I wanted to explore black and white. So, so already, you know, you're setting up the camera, and by the time you've done all of that, there, they've they've had time to settle into themselves, particularly if you're using large formats, they've had that time to settle into themselves. And so, yeah, that's kind of what I was sort of looking for, which is, it is it's been a bit challenging because, you know, they're cold, they're tired, they just want to go and get a cup of tea or go to the park. Usually they don't want to be. Andy rang the cult like this. Oh, hang on a minute while I pull the dark slide out. Yeah, I wanted to capture the strength and the power. Because partly what they're trained to do by this the wonderful coach, Ellie in the development team, is to take up space as women, and you know, so they inhabit their bodies in a different way that they might than they might do some of them outside of football, and you've got people who haven't had they've got their hair up out of the way just to play the game, and they wouldn't normally look like that. So there's all of these kind of elements which I wanted to capture in that.
Angela Nicholson
And there is a there's a real power and importance of the connection that you have as a team or a community. But when you've been playing a team sport, I think like, like, you say after the game, there's a it's elevated, that connection is formed as they go on the pitch, or reconnected as they go on the pitch. And it's absolutely it's peak as they come off, I think particularly if they've won, but sometimes also, if they've lost, they kind of connect and commiserate with each other. But I wanted to ask you about the non smiling, sometimes dead panel or quite serious looking expressions. Do you direct them to that, or do you find that's natural? Because I imagine if they've just come off and they've had a fantastic victory, there's a lot more smiling.
Roman Manfredi
I think it really depends on the person. And I think, I think you've got to remember, a lot of them are quite young, and they're used to putting their image out there in a different way, in a selfie and a smiling and a looking good. And I do say, take a deep breath. I just say, I just want no smiling. That's it. And sometimes they go to the extreme of looking a little, a little bit mean, but then that's what that's what it is. So whatever that means to them by not us. Just say I asked them not to smile, and I I try to get them grounded in their bodies and and stuff like that. Because, you know, I don't know them very well. They don't know me very well. They're not really sure about how to perform, I guess, for the camera.
Angela Nicholson
What made you apply for the 70: 15: 40 Project?
Roman Manfredi
Somebody messaged me and said, I think you'd be good for this. So I applied. I didn't actually know about it myself.
Angela Nicholson
But what was it about that appealed to you? Was it basically the fact that you could fund a project?
Roman Manfredi
Yeah, it was an opportunity to keep working. Yes, it's nice to have the money to continue to do that, but it was more about the motivation. And I wanted to work with I wanted to see what it was like to work with people who were professional, like all of you like, and how this show is now coming together. I mean, it's, it's interesting to witness, you know, all the press releases and all the interviews that I'm having to do and how I don't have to be in charge of all that, which is really, really nice, because I was at, we, in we, as I did everything, mostly myself, or I pushed it all along myself. And so it's really nice to have people really doing their jobs well, and I don't have to kind of think about all of that side of it.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, that's really good. What advice would you give to any women or trans or non binary people thinking about applying for a bursary or a scheme like the 70:15:40Project?
Roman Manfredi
Just go for it. Go for everything. I mean, that's what I do. If you go for 100 things, you might get a couple. You know, it's just about the ratio. Most of the things I've been successful in has been Picter, on Picter, there's a lot of opportunities. Just, there's this just, just seek out the opportunities, basically, and and apply for them all. A lot of them are free. But, you know, I've had great experiences with festivals where it's been like, 15 euros or something to apply, and I guess I have a parameter how much I can spend in a month on that, and sometimes more recently, people have approached me to apply for. So, you know, it's it's now interesting, getting interesting.
Angela Nicholson
I think just go for it is a great message.
Roman Manfredi
Yeah.
Angela Nicholson
And I think it's also a good time to go for Six from SheClicks. I've got 10 questions from SheClickers, and I would like you to answer six questions please by picking numbers from one to 10. So could I have your first number, please?
Roman Manfredi
One.
Angela Nicholson
What is your creative process for finding or developing a new theme for your work? Does it come organically as you work on an existing project? That question is from Renata.
Roman Manfredi
It does, but it also depends on where I'm at. You know, I think having an experience, I had a wonderful experience in Spain, in Barcelona, where I was showing the work with ravella Tea festival. And I just wanted to spend more time in Europe. I was just like, You know what? I My background is Italian, and I hadn't been to Italy for since the beginning of the pandemic. And I. I was like, right, you know? And I'd had this urge to want to go and do a project in Italy, and I kind of knew roughly what it was, and I just started researching, and it led me to to this project, which I've just won an award to do next year. So it's a kind of a combination, really, of things, because there's a lot of things, lots of different projects that I feel need my attention, but this one is going to be spending time over there, on and off, pretty much for next year,
Angela Nicholson
I'm really looking forward to seeing your next project.
Roman Manfredi
So am I'm terrified. I'm like, Oh my God. We are like, you know, because you go through so many different levels, you know, when I heard about it, I was just jumping up and down, and then I was shaking, and then, and then I went into three days of shame and fear of like, oh, but, you know, as well, like, they've invested in somebody my age, like, and I went through a kind of shame around and there was a lot of class stuff that came into it, and now I'm a bit intimidated and I'm but I'm always somebody that will push myself, because I don't want to continue at this stage of my career, if you like. I don't want to continue just framing people in a box in a square, and that's it. You can carry on like that. But actually, I just want to, I want to go a bit deeper. I want to explore a bit more. So I look for opportunities that will allow me to do that. And it's difficult because, you know, you have to then go in that whole failure thing, you know, because you've got this project that's been successful, and I just saw myself as a one trick pony. That point, I didn't even think about anything. And then the more I've kind of gone on, the more I've like, Oh no, obviously there's something here for me to develop further. And I will always push myself to jump off a few cliffs and take some risks with with everything that I do. So I did that with we asked. I was like, I've never shot, you know, really, hardly shot any film. And then there I was going around the country, and I was like, Oh my God, and I went up and down a couple of times because I had all these problems with it being out of focus, with things going wrong. And so you have to be really prepared to to deal with all of that, and to just keep going forward with what you've got in your own imperfect way, and being really where you're at, and I am at the beginning of my career.
Angela Nicholson
What you've talked about there really is imposter syndrome. And I think it's important to remember everybody's got it or gets it, and so then you might have six people in a room all looking at the other people thinking, I'm not as good as them, and they can't all be worse than everybody else, but it's just something inside us that is a real pain in the bum, really, but you just got to fight through.
Roman Manfredi
For me, it's all more of an opportunity for healing and growing and moving beyond that. And you know, you can stay at home or you can move out of your comfort zone. And I would always much rather move out of my comfort zone than just be sitting here, comfortable framing people in a box. I mean, there's power to that. And I think are quite formal in my approach, and I enjoy that, but I also feel like there's more there too.
Angela Nicholson
Could I have your second number then please?
Roman Manfredi
Number eight.
Angela Nicholson
What is your favorite film for your Hasselblad? That is from Liz.
Roman Manfredi
I'm still experimenting. I'm still exploring. I recently fell in love with Delta 400 my favorite color film, although I've only used two different types, I love portra 400 for its pastel renditions, the way it renders the colors is it gives it a softness that I really like. Love Delta 400 but I'm I'm shooting on FP four as well at the moment, and I've just discovered somebody said that I should try this Fujifilm Acros as well.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, yeah, nice.
Roman Manfredi
So I guess mainly on shooting on FP4 and Delta 400 right now. Okay, okay,
Angela Nicholson
Could I have your third number please?
Roman Manfredi
Three.
Angela Nicholson
Attitudes towards the LGBTQ community seem to have become more accepting. Have you seen a change in the way your work is perceived, and has it been more readily accepted as a result? That question's from Marie-Ange.
Roman Manfredi
I'm only doing the work now, and I do feel that it's a particularly good timing where people are it's more that they're aware of needing to be inclusive, that they are inclusive more than that, and that perhaps leads them to a more genuine interest. I don't know. I think the young generation at the moment, I don't know what Gen Jen, whatever that is, are really like queer is no big deal. I mean, I don't. Know, I mean, I don't say that actually lightly, because people are still being murdered for being queer. I guess I'm just talking within my own experience. But, yeah, I do feel there's a little bit more, but I'm still kind of mostly, you know, put into an either a women or non binary award or a queer project. Like a lot of it's not all of it. Some of it is like, oh, it's and reveal tea was analog photography. But I still, I'm not sure. I'm only recently being recognized in Britain, actually, like we us was went down really well in Europe, and I wasn't sure, because it's not just the queer stuff of my work. Is Class A race attached to that and I and because it's in Britain, I'm not sure if it's a bit too close to the bone to a, you know, deeply ingrained elitist photography. I mean, I really don't know. It's all very, very new to me. So I have nothing to really compare it to, like I was doing it before, but I think, yeah, there's just a kind of a general wave of consciousness that, I think that people want to kind of include people like me.
Angela Nicholson
Good. Okay, could I have your fourth number, please?
Roman Manfredi
Two.
Angela Nicholson
How do you meet your subjects, and what's their reaction when you explain your project? And a few people ask that one.
Roman Manfredi
Well, We/Us was an intergenerational project, and I found that with a lot of the older people, they were a bit more resistant to it, and I had to sort of prize them out a little bit, whereas the younger ones were like, oh, cool, yeah, you know, that was much more. And when I explained what it was about, and I always, before we do the photos, I always spend time with them. I interview them for at least an hour. I share things about myself that are quite personal, about who I am as a person and stuff like that, and and then I give them the opportunity to work with me or not work with me, but most people say yes. And I've found people. I found some people on Instagram, people that follow me or I follow them. You know, if I follow the Butch or stud hashtag, you follow hashtags, and you find people that way, I found people in the street. That's a harder one, and through word of mouth. I didn't want to put an open call out for it because, because I wanted absolutely equal representation, I only had 10 slots for older white butchers and 10 slots for older black butchers, or studs, and because they were 40. So I only had, I really wanted that equality, I guess, cultural diversity. I wanted the intergeneration on one of the different ages. So I could have done it, you know, lots more people probably like the people that I know that, you know, the older or the older, and, yeah, you know, so, so that's the way I went about it. I just went about right? Who do I want? And I've got this many. So I I very much. And not everybody's photogenic, you know, and I think that's a difficult thing, because you do have to make decisions. And while I would just go, oh yeah, I'll just include everybody that that would not have worked in this context, and I'm having to do the same thing with fair play, because even though they're predominantly white, I've got in I've got less of them, and I've got a sort of a more. There's a couple of trans women in there as well. And I just kind of really want that, that mix. Maybe it's not truly representation of the teams as they really are, but I feel like if I just pull that out, then that representation is, you know, important to me. Yeah, that's the way that I go about that.
Angela Nicholson
I think that's a really good point about the open call, because it's a bit like if you put a notice in a shop window, you're only going to get people applying who walk past that shop window. So it's probably people who live in that street, and so you're limiting yourself. But if you, if you search around, you open up the possibilities to people. Okay, can I have your fifth number?
Roman Manfredi
Nine.
Angela Nicholson
Did you always do your interviews for We/Us before or after shooting the photos, or did it vary and do you think it made a difference to the results? That question is from Liz.
Roman Manfredi
Always before, and I think it did make a difference. And then I keep in contact with some of them, and they're on, you know? I think this is the thing with with Instagram, they like my posts. I like their power, you know, I just some of them, know, but some of them, we've, we've, we've kind of kept in. Contact, and that's sort of important, important to me, that they're participants, and I don't want them to feel I want them to feel that. I always ask them, what they get out of it? What? What, what? Why do they want to be involved so that there's an ownership as well on their part, that they're they participate, and they're getting something out of it as well. That very, very important conversation.
Angela Nicholson
That's a good point. Yeah, that's very significant. Okay, so your last number, then please?
Roman Manfredi
Ten.
Angela Nicholson
In terms of the intergenerational aspect of We/Us, what did you feel were the most significant similarities and differences between the different generations?
Roman Manfredi
Ooo.
Angela Nicholson
You said that some of the older people were more reticent.
Roman Manfredi
Well, yeah, but we had a very different experience. Think it's the social media was, was probably the main thing, and the confidence the younger ones have and what's available to them. I think some of them. There was one in particular that was really when she found out the stories of some of the older ones, was like, Wow, I'm, you know, so honored to be part of this, you know. And it was that sharing of stories, because what happens is, with us older ones, we get out of touch quite quickly, don't we, you know, with what's going on in the younger ones. When I was young, there was one bar, and so you met all different generations. Do you see what I mean? And that's not, not really like I wouldn't go into that situation now, because they're all going to be young. Do you know what I mean? And so I think the main thing is that what I really wanted to do is, is provide access to each other's experiences intergenerationally, and provide something for the younger ones to kind of ground themselves in our history. Do you know what I mean, and particularly with the because, you know, there was still is, I guess, the black scene and the white scene. And when we talk about LGBT, we're really talking about the white scene. And I really knew that, you know, like when I, when I was young, I lived in Brixton and in the 80s, and it was very clear there was a black women's conferences and movements. And there was class was talked about. Racism was talked it was quite an intense time, and the black women had their own parties and their own things that they did. And I really, really wanted to draw attention to that. I really wanted those stories. So we had a whole event, which was called how I survived the 80s, which came from an interview with one of the participants, and that how those parties and those fundraisers were, how they survived the 80s. And just to hear about all of that, I thought was, was quite, was quite valuable for younger generations to come, because it's lesser known, I guess.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, and also all teenagers and younger people, they tend to think that they're experiencing something for the first time, but actually, there might be a few things that are different, but there's a lot of things that older people have tackled as well. And so to have that conversation and to make it realise that this woman, who might look exactly like your grandma, had very similar experiences when she was 16, as you're having right now.
Roman Manfredi
I guess so, yeah, yeah, I guess so, yeah. But you know, I think our experiences of I think the danger aspect of it in Britain has possibly lessened. I'm not really out there like I was about I certainly, and part of that's aging for me, I'm more confident, but you used to have to be careful where you held hands in public, because your life was actually in danger, you know, or you felt, you know, you were on edge. And I remember sort of going out in a suit and feeling really vulnerable and just sort of like I taught a men's suit, obviously. And that wasn't even that long ago, to be honest, that that I was getting thrown out of the men's changing room and stuff like that. It was a lot of stuff that you internalize. You go through your life with this kind of internalized stuff in the best way you can. And I feel that a lot of the young people don't have that as much, and that's a good thing. Yeah, hopefully, and hopefully we didn't go through all that for nothing.
Angela Nicholson
Amen to that. Well, thank you, Roman for joining me today on the SheClicks women in photography podcast. It's been absolutely fascinating to hear from you.
Roman Manfredi
Thank you. Thanks for having me. I've really enjoyed chatting to you, Ange, thank you.
Angela Nicholson
You're very welcome. Thanks for listening to this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. Special thanks to everybody who sent in a question. You'll find links to Roman's website and social media channels in the show notes. I'll be back with another episode soon, so please subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube, if you search for SheClicks net. So until next time, enjoy your photography you.
