Kelly Brown: Stand Out in Photography by Staying True to Your Creative Self
In this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast, host Angela Nicholson chats with the talented Kelly Brown, an internationally recognised newborn photographer and educator. With over 20 years of experience, Kelly has built a thriving business focused on capturing the precious early moments of life and has mentored over 70,000 photographers through her online tutorials. Her teaching emphasises both technical skill and creative vision, making her a sought-after voice in the industry.
Listen to another episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast
Kelly’s journey into 'serious' photography began on a construction site, where positive comments about her site photography sparked a lifelong passion. From documenting work projects to capturing her own child’s first days, she gradually transitioned into a professional photographer. Kelly's love for learning saw her studying photography. Working with the film cameras of the time helped her develop a meticulous, thoughtful approach to her craft.
Throughout the podcast, Kelly reflects on the importance of authenticity in creative work. She shares how, after initially mimicking trends and styles, she discovered the power of focusing on her own unique vision. This shift not only made her work stand out but also helped her build a dedicated clientele. For Kelly, the key to success in newborn photography lies in finding your style and offering something distinctive that resonates with clients. Her message is clear: creatives must decide whether they want to blend in with the crowd or create something truly unique.
The conversation also delves into the evolution of photography from film to digital, the emotional challenges of photographing weddings and the lessons learned from both positive feedback and tough criticism. Kelly recounts the trials of balancing photography with raising a young family, particularly before she could set up her home studio. Her story highlights the resilience and adaptability required to thrive as a photographer, from scaling fences with gear in hand to navigating the stress of big events.
Today, Kelly’s focus has shifted to teaching and sharing her expertise with aspiring photographers through her online education platform. During the pandemic, she offered free live classes, fostering a sense of community and connection among photographers worldwide. Her passion for helping others is evident as she discusses the joys of mentoring and the satisfaction that comes from seeing others achieve their goals.
Whether you’re an aspiring photographer or a seasoned pro, this episode offers valuable insights into the creative process, the business side of photography and the importance of staying true to yourself. Tune in to hear Kelly’s inspiring story, practical tips and her reflections on what it takes to succeed in the ever-evolving world of photography.
Episode Transcript
Kelly Brown
I think that's the thing we have to ask ourselves as creatives, do we want to stand out, or do we want to blend in? And when we're constantly trying to recreate what someone else has already created, we're blending in. But when we stop and we focus on what it is that we want to create, we start to stand out, and then we get noticed.
Angela Nicholson
Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson, and I'm the founder of sheclicks, which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I talk with women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them and how they got to where they are now. In this episode, I'm speaking with Kelly Brown, a renowned newborn photographer and educator who's mentored over 70,000 photographers through her online platforms where she offers extensive tutorials on photography techniques and business skills. Hi, Kelly, thank you so much for joining me today on the sheclicks women in photography podcast from all the way around the other side of the world.
Kelly Brown
Hi, yeah, I'm excited to be here.
Angela Nicholson
Thank you. Now I believe it was the birth of your first child that got you to take photography more seriously. But what was it that first attracted you to photography right at the beginning?
Kelly Brown
Do you know I was working on a construction site as a personal assistant, and I just so happened to have a camera, and they said to me, you need to go around site and take photos of all the different sort of stages of the the particular project we were working on to put into the client reports. And it was really quite interesting, because I'd never really done that type of photography before. Obviously, did a little bit of photography at school, but, you know, just being able to kind of get the workmen in action and, you know, to sort of capture the different structures and things like that, I don't know, just it interested me. And one of the guys on the Job said, Oh, great photos. And I was like, thank you. And didn't really think too much of it after that. But yeah, it was just having that camera and being able to photograph as many things as I possibly could was kind of what led me to what I like to call the addiction. I think, you know, every time we pick up the camera, we click that button and we see what we've captured. There's a there's a little bit of addiction. Now more so with digital photography, but back then, this was all film. So for me, it was a matter of taking the film to an actual lab and waiting. It was that that 24 hours sometimes, you know, if you were lucky to get a lab that did it in 24 hours, but just being able to wait and see what you'd actually captured. I think that was that whole adrenaline that that kind of created that addiction. For me. Sometimes it's literally just that first compliment you receive from someone to say, a great photo, and you're like, Oh, thanks, you know, I did something good.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, it's so powerful, though, isn't it has such an impact.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And then, obviously, like every mum, when they have a baby, you don't want to miss a second and you want to photograph every inch of them. So there, that's kind of where it was started.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah. I think also with that, that disconnect that you get in a way when you're shooting film, between taking the image and knowing that you've got it really pushed you to take more and more photos, whereas with digital photography, at least you can see, well, I've got that shot now. And yes, there is still a little bit of compulsion sometimes to take a few more, just in case. But you kind of know that it's it's well exposed, it's sharp, you've got the right bits in focus. But I remember, I could never really decide when I was shooting film, whether it was the photography, the actual action of taking the image, or seeing the photographs, that I like the most. And because I used to shoot a lot of slide film, so you when you put those, that sheet of transparencies on a on a light box, it's like looking at stained glass. I used to love that.
Kelly Brown
You're so right. And I think when I studied photography, and I did it on film as well, and we played a little bit with slide film. It was that taking of the shot. It was the being composed. It was, you know, lining everything up in camera, making sure you had everything right, in terms of the theory that you were learning to get it right, and because you didn't get that instant gratification of seeing the photo on the back of the camera. And, I mean, for me, it was, it was that level of excitement knowing that what you were sort of learning, you were putting into action. But I think it was that waiting period that made you process over and over in your head. Could I have taken it better? Oh, I wish I'd taken it from this angle, and so that time from the taking of the shot, that delayed time to seeing the final shot of the developing, I think that, in itself, is what pushed me to be a better photographer in those days. Because I was constantly thinking, Did I get it? Did I get it? Instead of looking at the back of my camera and going, I. Got it, and then sometimes, you know, there's, there's, there's pros and cons with it as well. But now learning that way for me has really refined the way that I shoot now. So in a normal session, when I'm shooting a client, baby, for example, I would take, well, I offer them a gallery of 20 images. But to this day and I and probably for the last 10 to 15 years, I haven't shot any more than 58 images in an entire session. So you're so precise with what you're capturing, because you've got to learn to think through every element at the time of that that that single shutter press.
Angela Nicholson
And I guess, from a professional point of view, you know, if you've got a client sat there and they're looking at you thinking, Well, I'm pretty sure she shot that 10 times. Now, you know, it looks a bit better if you're sort of just, you're being a bit more selective with your photography as you go along.
Speaker 1
And that in itself, I think a lot of photographers really struggle with the culling process. But also, you know, from a client perspective, it's like, when they see their gallery, it's like, well, is this all because they're remembering that the shutter or the flash went off, you know, 300 times in the session, but they're only seeing 20 images, so where are the rest of the photos from their perspective? But, yeah, you know, it's, it's a it's a funny thing. I think I'm very grateful for having learned on film. It taught me a lot, that's for sure.
Angela Nicholson
Would you advocate that people use a film camera now to learn? Or do you think digital photography is so ubiquitous that actually may as well just go to digital cameras?
Kelly Brown
Oh, look, yeah. Honestly, I wouldn't say to somebody go out and buy a film camera, but if you've got one, you know, explore, if you can get the film obviously processed, but go and explore and have fun. Get back to the craft. Because especially if you're feeling a little stale, I think too, it can really push you to be very decisive in what it is that you capture. I went to an event recently, and on the table at the dinner were these little instant cameras, film cameras, and so you couldn't see what the photo was, and they were encouraging everyone on the table to take photos of themselves. You know, some fun shots, but you literally holding up a little film camera taking a photo, and you have no idea what it's like. So the suspenders actually exciting. And yeah, yeah, for me, it brought back a lot of memories. But at the same time, it's now, you know, we can work so much more efficient with digital cameras. We you know, it, everything is at our fingertips, literally, you know, now cameras are even applying presets and and things like that in camera before you can download them. And, yeah, it's crazy, really, where technology is taking us.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah. So how did you take your hobby and part of your job, I suppose, in a way, but a sideline to being become a professional photographer.
Speaker 1
So the funny thing I was living in the Blue Mountains in Australia, which is a beautiful part of New South Wales, and my daughter was only six months old. We'd gone there for my husband's work, and I would literally go walking just every day with my camera. And people had the most beautiful gardens, and they'd even invite me in to take photos of their flowers. And then that led me to buying flowers and practicing, obviously, when I while I was studying photography as well, practicing, you know, composition and lighting. And so I'd shown someone some of these flower photos that I, that I captured, and they said you should sell these at the markets. And in this particular little town that we lived in, they had these beautiful country markets. So I printed quite a few of them on gift cards, and I put them in little cellophane bags, and I showed them to the people who ran the markets, and they said, Well, you've got to have a registered business. So I said to my husband, you need to drive me an hour away to the Department of Fair Trading where I can register my business. And that was it. I started selling gift cards in a market in the Blue Mountains, amazing, and that's why I registered my business, to start with so and it turns out that I did that because we were there for six months in total. I did that every every second weekend, and in a couple of little boutique gift stores, came across my my cards and wanted to sell them in their shops. So I did that for a couple of years as well. So that was the very beginning. And it wasn't until we moved back to where I live now, which is in Brisbane, Queensland, that just, yeah, I think some friends of ours were getting married, and they were like, Hey, you you've got a camera, you've, you've, you're doing photography because obviously, having a baby, I was sort of in the process. Even though I had a registered business. I wasn't necessarily a photographer then, but I was taking photos for, you know, commercial purposes. So I said, how hard can a wedding be? And I ended up photographing someone's wedding. And then that led to another wedding, and then that led to a bride having a baby, and then more family shoots. And word of mouth basically got me to where I am today, which is pretty cool when I think about it, when I look back at, you know, the last 20 years.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, I mean, you've mentioned a couple of times, you know, positive comments from people. But also, you know, when people ask you to do stuff, it's kind of scary, but it also the fact that they have confidence in you and believe that you can do something that gives you a little boost as well. You just need to take those those steps each time you get that nudge, don't you?
Kelly Brown
Oh, absolutely. And you know, those positive comments are great, but sometimes it's the negative comments as well that can push you to learn and, you know, do things that are a little bit more outside your comfort zone. So it was actually back in my film days when I was taking, you know, millions of photos of my daughter that my husband, at the time said perhaps you should go and learn how to take a proper photo. So I umm, I obviously got quite defensive and frustrated at the same time. I was a little hurt, but it did make me look at my work. You know, we're always going to be our biggest critics for ourselves, but it's not until you hear it from somebody else that you think, wow, okay, so that really pushed me. You know, at the time, it was upsetting, but hindsight, looking back, it really did push me to to be better, to learn to prove him wrong. Obviously, I wanted to do that more than anything, but I I wanted to take a good photo. And I've always been creative to in a sense, so, yeah, it was a big it was, it was a part of that driving force to learn my craft, which was why I went and studied photography. So when my baby was six weeks old, you know, she's nearly 21 now, I enrolled in a night course, so I would go off to TAFE (Technical and Further Education) college every week. I did the first course was for six weeks, and that was introductory to photography. And then I got I fell so in love with the process of it that I enrolled in another course straight after that. So I was always learning and then attending different workshops. And I actually, even at one point, I don't think I've told many people this, but I couldn't afford a lot of the courses that I wanted to do, so I actually put my hand up to be a model in some of the photography classes. So one of the colleges, it was an actual photography college. They were teaching black and white fine art photography, and needed a model, and I'm like, I'll do it. So I would go and sit in front of all these amateur photographers for hours on end listening to the lecturer teach them. And I, even though I wasn't taking photos, I'd still learnt the functions of my camera. I knew exactly what he was talking about. So it was and I got paid for it, like it was only $50 but I got paid and learned for and, yeah, I haven't told many people that, so that was a really cool thing to do.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, smart move.
Kelly Brown
Yeah.
Angela Nicholson
And also, there's something about when you're, I think particularly at the outset, when you're, learning about photography, being with another group of people around that same level, all sort of discovering new settings and working out what it's all about is really quite nice as well, isn't it?
Speaker 1
Oh, absolutely, you know, you're all just as excited but nervous at the same time, so and you don't feel silly. Do you know what I mean? Like, I've been teaching now for a long time, and and I, and I, my heart breaks for a lot of people, because, you know, they go, Oh, I'm so sorry for asking such a stupid question. I'm like, it's not a stupid question. Yeah, yeah. You know, no question is silly when it comes to this. There's, there's a, when you first start out with photography, there's a there's definitely the creative aspect of it, but there's the very overwhelming technical side of it that is, you know, daunting. I really struggled with artificial light for a long time, and I I'm going to be a natural light photographer, and I'm not going to do strobe lighting because I was so scared that I just said, No, I'm not going to do it. And then in the end, it's easier than natural light, isn't it?
Angela Nicholson
Yes, you're in control. So you'd been photographing the flowers and selling your cards. That's really nice, but you can choose everything, it's all at your own pace and everything. When you started doing weddings, you know, and people are asking you to take photographs of their wedding and their baby, that's quite a different thing, isn't it? How did you feel those first few times you were actually paid to do some work like that?
Kelly Brown
I was so scared. And by this stage, I was I'd moved on to a digital camera. So look, I was able to look at the back of my my camera at the time of the the. The wedding or the family photo shoot that I was doing. So there was some relief in knowing what I'd captured, but at the same time, I'd be so anxious leading up to it that I probably didn't sleep much the night before, and I would over pack my bag, you know, a million times, making sure I had everything that I needed. And there was always something that went wrong on the day, like I have had so many funny experiences from photographing weddings, because earlier on in my career, I was doing about 25 a year, and a lot of people don't know that I was and I even worked for a wedding photographer for a long time as a retoucher, so but I was locked in a boating marina because the bride and groom thought it'd be great to, after the ceremony, get on the boat. And then I would photograph them leaving on the boat from the dock. And then once they had gone, they were catching the boat around to where the reception venue was. And then I had to drive there. I couldn't get out of the marina. The gates were locked behind me, I couldn't get back, and so I've got my camera bag, and I'm literally scaling a fence with all of my equipment trying to beat the boat back to the reception so I could now photograph them arriving. And I was literally pouring with sweat.
Angela Nicholson
Oh no.
Kelly Brown
And I mean, another time I was photographing on the beach and a storm came in and my show my shoes were blown away, so I had to photograph the entire reception. And then another time, the mother of the bride and the bride had a massive fight at the wedding and wouldn't speak to each other the entire day. So yeah, there's been some really interesting experiences, yeah, but getting getting back to your question, sorry, the the going home after shooting one of those events, sometimes I put my camera down, and I was so nervous to pick it up, to go through the photos, it would take me days
Angela Nicholson
Oh!
Kelly Brown
because I was so anxious
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, wow.
Kelly Brown
hoping, because even though with digital photography, you can look at the back of your camera, you're still sometimes clicking, you know, throughout the ceremony, the kiss, the wind, the ring exchange, making sure you're in the right position at the right time, you you're still, you're just going with the motions. And it's almost like, afterwards, did I get it? And you're questioning yourself whole time, did I get it? Oh, my gosh. I hope those photos are sharp. I hope they're in, you know, hope they're exposed properly. And there's that always going to be that level of doubt at the end of every session. And I think it's still there, yeah, it's still to this day, like, as much as I know you know my lighting, I know my camera, I'm still always at the end of a shoot going, did I get it? Because, you know, I take my clients needs and wants seriously, and I want to make sure that I'm I'm impressing them. I'm getting what it is that they're paying me for. So the pressure, I think should always be there, and it's, in a sense, it's what should push us to be better every time we pick up our camera.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, now, when you were talking about climbing over the fence, you know, trying to, trying to get back to your car and you've got your kit, I was thinking, there's always two things in those situations that you're worried about, and one of them isn't yourself. It's always your kit and your clients? Yes, you know they're always the things I've got to get back to my clients, and I need my camera and lenses to be in one piece. Oh, I've just torn my jeans. Oh, well, you don't really worry about yourself so much. But did you at that point or any point, actually map out your career, or have a career plan what you wanted to do, where you're going to go with it.
Kelly Brown
At that point, my twins were actually about three years old, and I was still doing a lot of weddings and and the reason that I was still doing a lot of weddings was because I was I was starting to build a family portrait, sort of clientele base, essentially, and I was doing the odd baby every now and then, and I was a part of a lot of mothers groups, so I knew at that point, I knew a lot of women having babies and all with young, young families. So that worked really well for me, in a sense. But I I didn't live in a house where I could set up a home studio, and I couldn't afford to rent a studio space, so I was going to client home. So I spent four years traveling to client homes, doing baby photography, family portraits and things like that. And whilst it was fine, there was always it was always quite stressful. So at this point in time, I was just basically doing what I could. I had three kids under three, essentially when my twins were born, and I had a husband who worked away and was only home every second weekend. Yes, wow, so trying to book weddings and family portraits on weekends became really quite stressful for me, and because he was only home. Every second weekend, and then he would literally walk in the door. I'd hand them the kids, and I'd be like, Alright, I've got to go. I've got to shoot. And that, in a sense, was just, let's just get through this period of time. You know, we were trying to make ends meet, and we were, we were also wanting to move into a bigger home. Because, I mean, obviously our family grew very quickly when we added twins. So we, I mean, we're still in the house. Now, I'm still in the same house that we moved into and my twins were three, and allowed me to have a home studio. Nice. So made that choice at the time. I said to him, you know, now that I can have a home studio, I think I'm, I'm going to focus purely on, on photographing newborns, you know, they can come Monday to Friday. Dads have lots of time off after having babies. You know, it's easy. It's Monday to Friday. The kids go into childcare three days a week. That gives me weekends if I need but, you know, this is gonna work out really well for me. And he said to me, there's no money in that, right? And I was like, What do you mean? And he's like, Well, you wedding photography, that's where it's at. And I was like, I'm so done with weddings. I just can't physically. They're so stressful and physically, you know, they were killing me time I ended up, actually, I haven't told too many people this one either. I think it was 2011 I had a spinal fusion of l4 and l5 so I have six pins in my lower back right. And I was going and doing weddings, and I was, you know, taking tremodol Before a wedding or just to be able to carry around two cameras with two lens, two big lenses and things like that. So I was not in a good way physically, yeah, so my my surgeon said to me, you really need to have this surgery. And I took six weeks off after surgery, and I got straight back into photography, but obviously at a slower pace, but yeah, choosing to do baby photography after back surgery was something I was like, was that smart? Yeah, but I don't regret that decision, because I was also, as I said, working for a wedding photographer as a retoucher a couple of days a week as well. And when I said to him, I'm, you know, I'm gonna be finishing up, and he's like, What are you gonna do? And I said, because there was a bit of a non compete in terms of me being a wedding photographer and him being a wedding photographer, right? Yeah, I said to him, I'm actually going to focus on photographing babies. And he said, You're crazy. It's a fad, but it won't last. And he was not a very nice man, and it was really quite interesting, because two years later, he sent his staff to me to be trained in baby photography. Yeah, so he learned. So my and ate his words, and my ex boss ate his words. And as I said earlier, you know, sometimes it's those comments. You know, we we can have 100 people give us praise and tell us how amazing our work is. We can have 100 clients tell us how amazing the photos are, how much they love their photos. But it can take one person that knows us to say something negative, or a person online to comment on a photo, and all of a sudden we're like, oh, I'm devastated. I'm going to give up. It's the end of the world. I can't do this anymore. I'm the worst photographer. You know all the things that we say to ourselves, but if you let that one comment drive you to prove them wrong or to be better.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, you're a real winner.
Kelly Brown
Yeah. I did that.
Angela Nicholson
Fantastic. Well done.
Kelly Brown
Sometimes that negative comment that can push you
Angela Nicholson
Yeah. And it feels so good to be able to say, look what I've done
Kelly Brown
Absolutely. Yeah.
Angela Nicholson
So at what point did you feel you were ready to start teaching photography.
Kelly Brown
I don't think I ever thought that I was ready. There was a couple and being in Australia as well, you know, it's so far away from everywhere else. And I had, you know, obviously, at this point in time, been doing it for a little while. I had entered a couple of baby photos into the local sort of Queensland professional photography Association competition, and they had done all right, got like a silver and 81 or an 80. And baby photography just wasn't a thing. There wasn't a newborn category or anything like that. It was the portrait category. So I think when judges saw these baby photos coming up, they were like, What is this? And it was, it started to, sort of, I suppose, gain momentum in terms of popularity. And a couple of photographers that I knew from going to different photography events sort of said, Oh, hey, can I come along to your studio? Would you know, do you teach workshops? And I'm like, not really. Anyway, so I had five photographers come to my house, and I got a model in, and I we basically just went through the process. I mean, at that point in time, I hadn't even, you know, perfected my lighting when it came to newborns or my posing, but what I was teaching them was, you know, well, this is my posing bag. This is how I put the blanket on. This is how I put a bonnet on a hat, that very first workshop. And, you know, this is how I sort of photograph the baby in this position. And now, when I look back to that very first workshop, well I'll call it a workshop all those years ago to now, it's kind of astounding, really, like, that's 16 years ago, and I teach now so much, you know, more specifically, in terms of a ride, if you want the arm to come this way, you've got to look at the way it's positioned. And, you know, things like that so very, very different. But it was probably my Creative Live experience that, you know, allowed the world of newborn photography to learn who I was and and want to learn from me online, which was amazing. That experience in itself, was was kind of surreal, because a friend of mine had said they're taking auditions for anyone who feels like they can, you know, teach something or have has something to teach. And Garrett, who used to work for me, he said, You should do it. You should really do it. And I'm like, Oh, I don't know. And we had to submit a three minute video of me talking to camera, explaining what it is that I can offer. And the thing that they were doing was they were going to go through all of the submissions that they received and choose five, and if you were one of the five selected, you would then have to pitch your class that you would like to teach on Creative Live in front of a panel of judges at WPPI in Las Vegas.
Angela Nicholson
Quite daunting.
Kelly Brown
All right? So I was like, No, I can't do this anyway. So he was like, just have a drink. Talk to camera. We'll be fine. He poured me vodka. I was the only alcohol I had in the class. I don't even drink now. But back then, and this is going back to 2002 1012 or 2013 I think it was, I can't quite remember, but yeah, maybe actually it was 2012 and the end of and I was down in my studio downstairs, and it was coming into summer, and I had, there were a heap of cockatoos in my yard, and so we're trying to film in the studio, and there's cockatoos just being so noisy outside my window. And I'm like, just ridiculous. This is so unprofessional, they're not even gonna look at my video. And it's just, I sound, you know, everyone hates the sound of their voice. I sound silly. You know, they're not going to pick me. So Garrett submitted the video, and he put together some like behind the scenes video that we had. And anyway, I ended up getting an email from Creative Live, and they said, Thank you so much for your submission. Unfortunately, you have not been selected as one of the five finalists for whatever it was that they called it, but we'd like to offer you a class. So I actually was, was picked after this competition they were running, and I didn't even have to be one of the five in front of the panel of judges. So I don't know, I don't know what they saw, but they saw something.
Angela Nicholson
Wow, fantastic.
Kelly Brown
Yeah, I think there were 110,000 photographers watching live at one one point for my very first class
Angela Nicholson
Crikey. That's a huge number.
Kelly Brown
I know.
Angela Nicholson
Were you aware of it at the time?
Kelly Brown
No, and they kept asking me, did you you know? Do you want to know how many people are online? And I'm like, no, please don't tell me, because yeah, I was, at that point, I had an in, in studio audience. I can't remember how many there were, maybe eight, eight photographers there. So I was just really focused on talking to them. And it was great, because at that point I'd forgotten that there were cameras everywhere, and the film the producers and the videographers were very quiet in the room, because obviously it was baby photography. They thought that they had to be very, very quiet. So I was really focused on the actual teaching side of it and the in person audience, and I think it was a three day class. And at the end of the three days, my producer came up to and he's like, so now, do you want to know? And when he told me, I, I, I was shocked, like I was literally shocked, because at that point I didn't realize how big baby photography had become all over the world. I. Came home to 3000 emails, well, from people that had watched just, you know, we really resonated with your story. We really loved your class. We loved your way you taught. And I was blown away. Like, I'm, I come from a small country town in New South Wales, like I literally was like, What is going on?
Angela Nicholson
Mind blowing. Am I right in thinking that education is your main focus now?
Kelly Brown
Yeah, it is, and I made that decision a few years ago, especially when covid hit about a year leading up to covid, I was really only doing return clients, and that was still quite constant for me. Occasionally there would be somebody that was referred, and they would say, No, we only want you. And then I would say yes, if I could fit them into my diary. So was doing one to two clients a week still, which was quite busy for me, on top of teaching. And then covid hit, and I found myself sort of sitting in my studio, going, well, what am What am I going to do? And Garrett and I, all we did was go home and go to work. So we were like, well, let's just keep coming to work. So I did 56 free live classes every, every week, for six weeks, and we put them on YouTube. We put them into the new one posing Facebook group, and we we started to realize the need for people to feel that community going into lockdowns. When that stopped, we were like, well, I was already selling tutorials online. So we were like, well, let's build on this community. And that's how I started my online education platform. And once sort of the restrictions lessened and I was able to do clients again, I thought to myself, well, if I take clients back again, then I'm not going to be able to put 100% of my time and energy into this community, this platform that I've built. So I made the decision, and I said, if it doesn't work, then I'll just start advertising again. I'll start doing clients. And I haven't done that yet, and I love it. It's so rewarding knowing that you can help someone achieve, you know, their goals, their dreams, give them, even if it's just a little bit of encouragement,
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, it really makes you feel good to see someone else so happy. I think, Oh, absolutely. What do you enjoy teaching most? Is it the nuts and bolts of photography, the sort of the baby management or the business management side?
Kelly Brown
Ahh. Do you know I always love the business side of things? Because, I mean, I love, I love working with babies, don't get me wrong, I really do. And I love focusing on the safety side of things. So let's cover that first. Because, you know, when it comes to teaching photographers photography, I think that it's really important that they learn their craft. You should be able to pick up your camera and know how to use it when you've got a subject in front of it, you shouldn't be fumbling with your camera settings when you've got, you know, someone's precious baby, especially a baby in front of the camera. So for me, that aspect of it giving them full creative control. So I'm not telling them. This is how I put do my light. This is I teach people how to learn their craft so that they can have full creative control themselves. And there's nothing more rewarding than having that full creative control, because we're all creative, and we forget as photographers, is that no one sees it like you. If you go to a workshop and someone says, You've got to do it like this. You've got to do it like this. Put your light here, put it on this setting. You know what? That's paint by numbers. Anyone can do that. But we're creatives, and this is a craft and photography, if you go right back, you know, throughout the history of photography, what people were able to capture and what they were able to, you know, experiment and explore in terms of what it is that we can do with our cameras is really quite phenomenal, but we, I find that a lot of photographers don't give themselves permission to do that. They want to be told how to do it. They're so worried about doing something wrong. But you can't do it wrong. If you listen to your client and you know, you craft, you can't do it rather. So for me, I love that side of it as well, but the business side, that's something that no creative thinks about when they pick up their camera and they register a business. So going back 20 years, when I registered that business, I had no clue what I was doing. I had no clue that, you know, I'd be selling gift cards in a boutique shop, or, you know, 20 years later, dealing with bookkeepers and accountants and, you know, lawyers and all of that kind of stuff. So it's there's so much involved with running a successful business, and I want to show people that it's not as scary as what a lot of people think that it is, and it doesn't actually. Actually have to be hard. If you build the right foundations, and you back yourself, and you start with clear goals, then you can, you can achieve them. Yeah, I mean, it's anything, no, Nothing's easy in life. Is it nothing worth having? No, that's it nothing worth having. I love that. But you know you don't know what you don't know as well. Yeah, it's very easy for people to go, I don't you know. I don't need to know that, but everything I teach is of value to the person that wants to learn it.
Angela Nicholson
It sounds fantastic. So you facilitate people finding their style and honing their skills, but also developing the business side so that they can maximize the use of that absolutely.
Kelly Brown
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's what I've done, it's what I've spent the last 20 years doing, waking up every day and being grateful that I get to do what I love and make money from it, like people told me I was crazy and I'm never going to make them make a living from this. You know, the most gratifying thing ever throughout my entire career was the day that my husband quit his job to come and work for me. Brilliant. I bet you know i Yeah, it's, there's, there's so much that, obviously we could talk about in that, that on that side of things. But, you know, I just want people to realize that, you know, you can do anything when you're armed with the right information. And I'm not saying that I'm the right person. What I'm saying is anything is possible. Just do your research.
Angela Nicholson
Fantastic. Okay, well, I think that's a really good time to go to Six from SheClicks. I've got 10 questions from SheClickers, and I'd like you to answer six of them please by picking numbers from one to 10. So could I have your first number, please?
Kelly Brown
Oh, my goodness, three.
Angela Nicholson
Number three, what's your go to lens for a day in the studio with a newborn and several people asked that.
Kelly Brown
28 to 70. RF, Canon lens, f2.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, okay.
Kelly Brown
I love it with the big one, and it's heavy, but it is most beautiful lens that I've ever shot with. Prior to that, I always shot with a 24 to 70 F 2.8 always, um, for anyone photographing a baby, please, please don't photograph them with a 35 mil lens. Okay, not designed for baby photography, not designed for portrait photography. A longer focal length, anywhere around 50 to 70, mil is going to be your dream lens. The only time you need to zoom out is when you're photographing from above and you can't fit everything in for safety reasons.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, so I take it. You used your 28 to 70 at 50 to 70 mil,
Kelly Brown
70 mil all the time. The only time I zoom out is safety, yeah.
So why have you not gone for, say, an 85 1.4?
You have to move back a little bit too far. I find that the distance, the focus distancing with the 28 to 70 much better, okay? And plus, it's a really nice, versatile lens.
Yeah. And anyone thinking that the difference between 2.8 and f2 isn't much, it really is, isn't it?
Speaker 1
Oh, my goodness, yes, that blur that you get, oh, it's so beautiful, especially when you're zoomed right in at 70 mil.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, can I have your second number, please?
Kelly Brown
Two.
Angela Nicholson
If you could go to an exhibition, what sort would it be? That question's from Rebecca,
Kelly Brown
Oh, um, installation art. Yeah, absolutely.
Angela Nicholson
Have you got a gallery near you that shows that sort of thing?
Kelly Brown
Yeah, there's a Gallery of Modern Art near me in Queensland, and they've always got beautiful installation art on display. And for me, it's I love, I love being able to capture everything in camera. So a lot of like my creative concept shoots and things like that, believe it or not, a single capture. So I will build props and sets and things like that. So I find a lot of inspiration looking through the artist's eyes as to how they came up with those concepts, how they light them, and then I, I look at it and go, Well, how can I bring that into my studio? How can I create something like that, to create depth, to create mystery, to create what's the word I'm looking for more of an illusion around, you know, the the composition itself.
Okay. Okay, could I have your third number, please?
Number five.
Angela Nicholson
Why newborns, and not any other age group, and how old are the babies that you photograph? Usually, that's from Marie-Ange.
Kelly Brown
Okay, so I'll usually say to parents, you know, around two, two to three weeks is a good age to photograph them, but the then the earlier, the better, because they're nice and sleepy and curly and, you know, it's sort of a nice time as well. You know, parents are still learning everything about their babies. They're still in that sort of, what I like to call the the baby sort of honeymoon stage, they're so in love and and that's a really beautiful it's everything is so new and fresh. It's a really beautiful time to photograph. And I do photograph other ages as well. So it's just most people know me for baby photography. So my online education his baby photography. But gosh, I've been photographing every age you could possibly imagine for 20 years, right? My grandparents were frequently in front of my camera as I documented them. But even Yeah, just portraits of teenagers. And I photograph my kids all the time. I photograph family portraits, generational portraits, and I've had so many returning clients where I've done their baby and then they've come back for even creative portraits with their kids when they you know, even as old as 10. So it's been really nice to continue to watch families grow throughout the years and be able to capture them in different ways. But, you know, just because you specialize in an area doesn't mean you can't photograph something else. But yeah, like people don't know that. You know, in the first few years, while I was doing a lot of weddings as well, I was working for an architectural company photographing staircases, Nish, yeah, yeah. But like, when you're building a brand online and you're targeting a particular audience, then you tend to to share photos of those genres. But it doesn't necessarily mean not photographing other ages. So it's always fun to explore and experiment with every every genre of photography learns something like, I'm about to go to Iceland and learn from a photographer over there, landscape and outdoor sort of stuff. It's gonna be fun. It's exciting. It's different.
Angela Nicholson
Nice.
Kelly Brown
Yeah.
Angela Nicholson
That sounds great. Iceland's beautiful as well.
Kelly Brown
Yes, I've never been.
Angela Nicholson
So could I have your fourth number please?
Kelly Brown
Number six, please.
Angela Nicholson
Number six, what do you think about working on personal projects? Do you have any ongoing at the moment? That question is from Liz.
Kelly Brown
Yeah, personal projects are huge. They push you to explore different avenues, different genres, and allow you that creative space to work on something that's purely you. I was just talking about this recently at an event, and you know, when you allow yourself that time to create, it's it can be hard to find that space to be in. And I'm not talking about four walls a studio space. I'm talking about a creative space that that has very little interference of what other people think about, what it is that you're going to create, or anything like that. It's when you get when you get into that space and you just purely create from the heart that's magical. And sometimes it happens easily and sometimes it doesn't. It depends. But I feel like photographers to keep that passion alive, to keep the inspiration alive that we should be working on personal projects as often as we can now, that's going to be different for every single person, purely because, you know, we all have different commitments in terms of our personal lives, and sometimes some of us have got young kids, some of us got older kids and things like that. So we can only do so much, but we should be working on something that's purely for us as creatives, that feeds our soul on a regular basis.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, I agree. So, could I have your penultimate number then please?
Kelly Brown
Number eight.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, now this is an interesting one. If you could have changed one thing in your career, what would it be that questions from Penny?
Kelly Brown
Oh, my gosh. Penny. Oh, one Thing. Nothing.
Angela Nicholson
Really?
Kelly Brown
I really don't think there's anything that I would change. I've gone through lots of highs and lows. I've made so many mistakes as a business owner, but I've learned every single one of them, which has led me to where I am today. So I mean, there's been some clients that haven't been pleasant to work with, but I've learned something from them. There's been some very big, failed, personal projects that I've worked on, but I've learned from them, right? And everything leads to something, yeah, and what do they say? You know when something you know it's it's like that whole when one chapter ends, a new one starts, but you can't start the next chapter without the the knowledge of what was in the previous chapter. So you can't grow and evolve as a photographer unless you're learning and it all of the failures, all of the mistakes that people talk about you. Know, on a regular basis, they're the they're the things that push you. It's just, unfortunately, we don't realize that at the time. Yeah, you know, they're our biggest growth moments. You know, if you're not evolving as a photographer, you're just going to get left behind in every sense of the, you know, the photography world.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah. So you have to try new things, and if you don't like them, then just chalk it up as part of the experience and move on.
Kelly Brown
Exactly, yeah, you know, even just open a photo, a random photo in Photoshop, destroy it, close it and don't save it. Learn from the process.
Angela Nicholson
Sounds like fun. Okay, so your final number, please?
Kelly Brown
Let's go with number 10.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, how does one stand out in newborn photography? And where do you see the future of the industry? That's from Sarah
Kelly Brown
Okay. That's a good question, because, you know, we've just been talking about evolving, and, you know, everything changes. There's always trends and things like that. And I think for me as a baby photographer, how I was able to stand out was that I stopped trying to be like other photographers. So for a long time, when I first started baby photography, I thought that I had to pose the baby in the froggy pose, or I had to, you know, use a certain colored backdrop, and I had to put a certain headband or hat on a baby. And the pressure to do that, just to be a baby photography was huge, because I'm like, well, people won't accept my work. People won't like my photos. And then something happened. A photographer I admired commented on Facebook, not on my photo, but it was right after I'd posted a picture of a baby in a bowl, and he was a local photographer, a wedding photographer, and he said, If I see another baby in a fruit bowl, I'll vomit. And I was like, oh my goodness, what the heck. And anyway, then I was like, Well, I thought about it for days, even weeks. I was so cranky at first, but then I just wouldn't leave my mind. And I was at this point, still trying to build my own style. I wasn't familiar with my style. I was just trying to do everything and be inspired by everyone else. So I decided to, you know, go back and look at that photo. And I thought to myself, I don't even like that bowl. Well, I don't even like that hat. Like, what was I even thinking?
Angela Nicholson
Yes, what am I doing?
Kelly Brown
That's it. So I went literally, fueled with this frustration. I went into my studio and I removed everything I no longer liked. I went through all my hats and bonnets, some my grandmother's sister knitted for me, and I, you know, just didn't have the heart to remove, because she got excited and but every time a client would pull one out, I'd cringe and go, please don't, please don't pick that one. And they would then be like. But I literally moved, removed everything that I did not like, and I only kept colors that I enjoyed photographing, that that I resonated with. So I I really focused on a particular style. And it wasn't until I did that that I started to see a change in my work, and I started to see other clients come to me because they liked that particular style. It was a very sort of natural, organicy, kind of earthy style. And that started to my photos, started to build a particular, you know, look, I suppose, and people started to recognize my work. And it was at that point that I realized that, for the first time, I put my blinkers on and stopped looking at what everyone else is doing, and I focused on what I wanted to do at the time, I didn't realize, but looking back and not long after that, I was like, Wow, I'm actually busy. I'm really busy, and people are coming to me for my particular style, my online gallery, my portfolio, looks beautiful. The photos from one to 20 from a client gallery are nice and consistent, like I actually started to really focus on my work, and it improved very quickly. So the more I focused on what it was that I wanted to capture for my clients, the more my name got out there, my brand got out there, and people started to respond to my work. I think that's the thing we have to ask ourselves as creatives. Do we want to stand out, or do we want to blend in? And when we're constantly trying to recreate what someone else has already created, we're blending in, but when we stop and we focus on what it is that we want to create, we start to stand out and then we get noticed. So it's a question we have to ask ourselves, do. You want to stand out, or do you want to blend in? Because if you blend in, then clients that are trying to find you, they're just going to keep scrolling, because they're like, seen it, seen it, seen it. All that's different. People who stand out get noticed. Clients notice you, not just other photographers, but clients notice you because your work's different. People don't want the same as what everyone else has got. They want something different.
Angela Nicholson
Also, I think if you're you know, you talk about going to your studio and turfing out all of those props that you didn't like, that must have felt so cathartic, and then suddenly you're only using the stuff you really like. So you're probably more excited about your photography and you're enjoying it more and creating better and better images.
Kelly Brown
It was almost like a relief at the end of every session, because clients were choosing things that I liked. I've always loved getting clients involved, you know, I'd pull out two hats, one a little bit busier than the other, and say, Oh, I love both. Which one, and then they would choose. So they had to say, I'd get two headbands, one big, one small, which one they'd choose. But everything that was in there is something that I liked. Yeah, when you're creating something you love, nice, it's easy when you create from from a place of love.
Angela Nicholson
Yes, yes. I think it's much easier. So Kelly, thank you so much for answering all those questions. It's been absolutely lovely to hear from you.
Speaker 1
No, thank you. It's been been amazing chatting. I love I love talking, if you haven't worked it out yet.
Angela Nicholson
Thank you. Bye, bye.
Kelly Brown
Thank you so much. Bye.
Angela Nicholson
Thanks for listening to this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. Special thanks to everybody who sent in a question. As usual, you'll find links to Kelly's website and social media channels in the show notes. I'll be back with another episode soon. So please subscribe to the show on your favourite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find sheclicks on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube, if you search for sheclicks net, so until next time, enjoy your photography.
