Hannah Couzens: Finding Success by Staying True to Your Photography Style
In this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast, Angela Nicholson is joined by the hugely talented portrait photographer and Sony Imaging Ambassador, Hannah Couzens. With a career spanning two decades, Hannah is known for her skill in lighting, her engaging teaching style and her ability to create striking portraits that truly capture the essence of her subjects. Her motto, "Come as strangers and leave as friends," sums up her approach perfectly – a blend of warmth, professionalism and technical expertise that makes her stand out in the industry.
Listen to another episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast
Hannah’s journey into photography started at a young age when a friend introduced her to the magic of film cameras. A moment of creative realisation struck when she saw her first developed images and from that point on, she was hooked. She pursued a formal education in photography before diving straight into the industry, working across multiple genres, from sports and product photography to real estate, before finding her true passion – portrait photography.
In this candid conversation, Hannah shares the turning points in her career, including a personal loss that changed her perspective and pushed her to take opportunities beyond her comfort zone. She talks about how an email to photographers in New Zealand led to a life-changing job offer, allowing her to gain invaluable experience in a highly competitive market. It was here that she honed her ability to connect with people and adapt her skills to a variety of subjects and scenarios.
Throughout the episode, Hannah also discusses the challenges of navigating trends in the industry and staying true to her creative vision. She reflects on a period of self-doubt when she felt pressured to alter her style to match social media trends, only to rediscover her love for her signature lighting techniques. Her experience serves as a reminder that personal style and artistic integrity are key to long-term success in photography.
As a highly respected photography educator, Hannah talks about her transition into teaching and how she fell into it almost by accident. She shares her philosophy on making lighting accessible and breaking down complex techniques into simple, actionable steps. Her passion for teaching stems from a desire to help photographers gain confidence in their abilities and she has become known for her no-nonsense, engaging approach that resonates with beginners and professionals alike.
Hannah also discusses her role as a Sony Imaging Ambassador, a position that came about in an unexpected and rather amusing way. She explains how she initially resisted switching to mirrorless cameras but was blown away by the image quality and dynamic range when she finally put Sony’s technology to the test. Now, she champions the brand while focusing on what matters most – capturing incredible images with tools that enhance, rather than dictate, her creative process.
The episode wraps up with Hannah answering six questions from SheClickers, covering everything from her favourite non-work photography projects to her approach to working with teams. Her insights into the business side of photography, the importance of genuine connection with clients, and how she balances professional and personal life make for an inspiring and insightful discussion.
If you're interested in portrait photography, lighting techniques, or building a sustainable career in photography, this episode is packed with practical advice and thought-provoking insights. Tune in to hear Hannah’s journey, her experiences, and her invaluable tips for photographers at any stage of their careers.
Listen now and be inspired!
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This podcast is supported by Sony, maker of class-leading camera equipment and cutting-edge technologies – like the Global Shutter in the Alpha 9 III which won the SheClicks 2024 Award for Innovation.
Episode Transcript
Hannah Couzens
If you have passion for something, you will always be good at it, because in your spare time or downtime, everything else you want to learn more. It's not like when you finish, you want to shut the door and then never think about it again.
Angela Nicholson
Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson, and I'm the founder of SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I talk with women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them and how they got to where they are now. This episode is with Hannah Couzens, a multi-award winning portrait photographer and Sony imaging ambassador. She's known for her mastery of light and passion for teaching her motto, come as strangers and leave as friends.
Angela Nicholson
Hi, Hannah, thank you so much for joining me today on the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. It's really great to see you.
Hannah Couzens
It's always lovely to talk to you. And thank you so much for having me on.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, thank you. Now, you were an early starter in the photography business, but what was it that gave you the bug in the first place?
Hannah Couzens
Oh, that's a good question. Yeah, I was an early starter, I think, you know, from my point of view, I I was a bit of a bit of a loss when I was still at school. This is like secondary school, and I knew that I wanted to do. I was always better at the creative things. I was fairly decent, all rounder, but I might, you know, certainly my passion were in the more sort of, you know, creative subjects. But I was kind of liked, you know, the art side of things. But I was, No, I still, to this day, I cannot paint or draw to save my life. I was only good at sort of sculpture, that kind of thing. And I just thought the age of, sort of 16, how you really gonna progress? Yeah, like you have the career in sculpture. So it was only when a friend of mine, her dad had, yeah, had this old metal bodies. I can't remember. Was it Pentax K1000 I think it was. And she was putting a roll of film in it and showing me how to use it, basically. And one day we were just messing around, and I was like, oh, once when the film was developed, I was like, wow, that's this. Is it? This is it? This is exactly what I want to do. Because this is how, like, using aperture, I could create sort of depth and perspective and things like that that I could never do when I was trying to draw or paint. I just couldn't. I haven't got that skill to be able to do that, but being able to do it through photography and through the camera and the settings that was it, that was just the thing. And so pretty much from there, I was fortunate that I knew that that was something that I wanted to do. So I went straight out of college and into photography for two years doing a B Tech, blimey, some of these things sounds like they outdated now, so long ago, and it was a two year diploma. And, yeah, I loved it, and especially once I got to college and was really into it. And then we learned about lighting and portraiture and all these different aspects of photography. And that was, that was it. That was I was like, This is it. This is it, this is what I've been looking for. I just needed that afternoon in the rain with a camera to figure it out.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, that's amazing. Did anyone try and put you off being a photographer or taking that sort of going down a creative Avenue?
Hannah Couzens
No, I've been really fortunate. I always feel that my I remember my brother asking my parents, like, what was a good job? Yeah, I think he was pretty much meaning like, what paid well or whatever. It's like, we were quite young. He said, like, what was it? What's a good job? Yeah, like, like, a chartered accountant or, you know, like, this or that. And my mum and my dad both turned around and said, the best job you can have is one that you get up in the morning and you can't wait to get to, oh, they're like, that is the best job that you're ever going to have. And of course, we were kind of young to figure that out, but that's pretty much, that's the that's the mantra that they that they gave us always and so therefore, they fully supported everything that I was doing, everything that I did. They were just so pleased that I'd found something that I was passionate about. And I think they were super smart in realizing I think about it now with my own kids, I think that if you have passion for something, you will always be good at it, because in your spare time or downtime, everything else you want to learn more. It's not like when you finish, you want to shut the door and then never think about it again. So I think they picked up on the fact that I'd found the thing, and they were just so happy that I was passionate about something, that they were completely and fully supportive. I was really lucky in that aspect. And I don't think anybody else has really tried to talk me out of it. I've been quite lucky in that respect.
Angela Nicholson
Great. Yeah, that's really good. I do hear from people, you know this, oh, you know, parents wanting to be an engineer or a doctor or something like that, and they had to kind of persuade them that photography was a real, real job. So it's really nice to hear from someone who was, you know, 100% committed, and their parents were behind them too. So that's that's really lovely. But why portrait photography?
Hannah Couzens
I'm trying to cut a long story short, but
Angela Nicholson
We've got time, Hannah.
Hannah Couzens
Cool, it's a long one. No, I'll try and cut it down a bit. So one of my school friends, we'd all grown up together, and one of my school friends dropped dead to the age of 21.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, wow.
Hannah Couzens
just bam, like that. And at that age, I think you think you're indispensable, and you just it was such a shock, because we had known each other since we were sort of three or four years old, and in the same year, my mum got breast cancer, and suddenly it kind of like all your mortality suddenly comes to the forefront of your mind, and it's around it, you know, it's one thing, if it's a parent that gets sick when they're older, but when it was just, you know, he was there one night and then he was gone the next, it really, it really hit me, and in such a way that I think you, you think you're indispensable, and you know, when you're 21 you think there's time to do stuff. And so, yeah, he was a little older. I was probably not 18 or 19. And so it really kind of shocked me, and it pushed me to go and sort of go. We actually ended up, actually ended up going traveling with some friends, we just kind of went, oh geez, there's a big world out there. We've been stuck where we are, and let's go travel, which we did. And then I ended up falling in love with a particular place in New Zealand. So in Wellington, in New Zealand, I was like, this is such a cool place. I feel like I fit in here. This feels like a good fit for me. I want to maybe go back and spend a little longer there. So I did, and I actually emailed all the photographers in Wellington and said to them, Look, how is it to be a photographer? I'm thinking of coming over. How is it to be a photographer out there? And one guy in particular, I mean, they all wrote back, which was lovely, but one guy in particular said to me, it's really competitive, like, really competitive. And are you actually coming? I was like, Yes, I'm gonna land on, you know, whatever the date was. And he said, Well, to be honest, you're just gonna end up being my competition. So it's better that you join me rather than working against me. And I was like, Oh, it is competitive. And so pretty much been there he I was like, okay, cool, I'm gonna walk straight into a job. And he literally offered me a job. And the day after I landed, he had the contract with Wellington rugby, and I had, I was given this pass, which is probably like, you know, thinking about New Zealand and their love of rugby. It was probably the equivalent of being given a pass to go around sort of Anfield or something massive here, and I was just coming and going, I was given the brief at the start of the night, which was, get the sponsors in, in the background. LG, with the sponsors, Do this, do this. And I had not really photographed sports before, certainly not on that level. And it was such a bizarre and surreal but brilliant moment. I just landed over the other side of the world, and I just walked straight into this job, and I started working with him for quite a while, but he was not wrong when he said it was competitive, and it basically meant, one day we were photographing sports, the next it was real estate. The next it was portraits. The next, it was product. It was all over the place, and so I kind of did a bit of everything. It was a baptism of fire. It was it was brilliant. It was probably the best thing that could have happened, because it made me dip my toe in the water of so many different genres. But in the end, I realized that it was something about the connection with people, working with people, because I'd done a lot of I had done some product stuff, and I remember I got some pretty high end clients through a friend of mine because he worked at an advertising agency. It was a friend of mine's brother who was bit older than us, but he used to basically feed me work because I was younger and cheap. And so for him, when he was pitching these, you know, these ideas to his clients, he knew that he was probably going to make a bit of money on it. But it was good for me because I was getting clients such as Dell computers, GlaxoSmithKline, all of this when I was 17, 18, something like this. So of course, that in my portfolio when I am so young was great. But what I didn't like about it is that I'd set something up according to his brief, and then I'd send it over, and then you get a phone call saying, Oh, could we change the color of the pencils in the pot, they're in the foreground, to red instead of yellow or something. Go and do it. And it was just me and the product in that, you know, and I felt quite lonely and bored. I just felt like, Oh, this isn't I can't really have much of a conversation here. More of a social person, and that, it didn't really suit me. So a combination of all of those things, having done that work, like product work for my friend's brother, and then gone out to New Zealand and kind of done a little bit of everything. I realized that, yeah, it's the portraiture side of things that I really enjoy. It's the lighting, it's the people, it's the character, it's the expression, it's all of those things that that gets me excited. Taking photos of products less so.
Angela Nicholson
Understandable. There's quite a lot to unpick there. I mean, firstly, what a fantastic attitude from the guy who employed you, because a few people could have just turned around said, 'No, don't come. There's no work. You won't like it,'because he didn't want you to be his competition, but to actually, you know, welcome you and embrace you and see the benefit of including you in the business, I think is, is fantastic, a very mature attitude.
Hannah Couzens
Absolutely, I owe so much dear Andy Radka, and we're still in touch. Like, it's lovely. I see that. It's so bizarre. He had these baby these twins, these tiny babies when I first met him, and now they're sort of like growing up having families of their own. He realized how long ago it was, but it's so it's so lovely. I feel like, I still call him boss, and it's lovely. I feel like, yeah, it it took him really, like, you know, as you say, if people had emailed back and or if he had not taken that attitude, my journey and my experience, and perhaps even now, where I've ended up, may not have worked out the same way. So I owe Andy a lot.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, that's nice. Did you realize at the time that you'd landed on your feet, or were you just kind of like doing the job and enjoying it and seeing what happened?
Hannah Couzens
I was, I was loving it. Angela, I was, it was such a bizarre experience. It was so brilliant. But I was young. I was for anyone. I was out there getting paid on the other side of the world, just having so much fun, you don't have that sort of those reservations, like you do when you you know when you get older, and perhaps things that might get in your way. So I was just loving my life. It was absolutely brilliant, and I think it was the perfect thing to do to kind of honor my friend who had had his life cut so short, suddenly it was like, you know, I remember speaking to his mom afterwards, and she said, at least it wasn't, at least his death wasn't in vain. And I was like, oh, geez, that's, that's horrendous. But at the same time, I kind of felt like, yeah, I need to, right? We lost you, Peter, so I need to go out and, you know, live life, you know? Because I didn't, you know, he didn't get the chance to do that. So some would argue I still do the same thing.
Angela Nicholson
Well, that's great. I think that is a really lovely tribute to somebody. Now, do you have any particular favorite subjects? I mean, I don't mean individuals. I mean, you know, do you like photo, you photograph a wide range of people. You've got actors, dancers, you know, and then there's pregnant women and children and babies. What do you have a preference for any of them?
Hannah Couzens
I think maybe my things that have surprised me. Sometimes I love to do a character portrait. Perhaps some to find somebody that has a story, or, you know, something about them, or sometimes the most unlikely people that wouldn't think that they would end up the other side of a camera. So I ended up, when I was down in Cornwall, photographing this guy who was a fisherman, and he his, he like his presence, and we filmed a little bit of it at the time and how his delivery and everything else that people shock you. I love this because, you know, everybody told me we were looking for somebody to photograph to, you know, to interview, sort of thing as part of a tutorial series. And then they were like, you know, all the other guys around the harbor were like, Oh yeah, he's a bit scary. I'm not sure, you know, you might want to talk to him and everything else. And I met him, and he just, I don't know what they were talking about. I He was the loveliest, nice, just the most adorable man. He was so, so funny and charming. And he's still in my phone as Malcolm, the scary fisherman, because, like, what they called him the first time. But this guy has written a book. He was so eloquent the way he was talking to the camera that it was one of those things where the you wouldn't have imagined it was such an unlikely friendship and such an unlikely combination that you know, he would suddenly be some of my some of the images that are at the forefront of my portfolio. And so it's just, I love, I love things like that, when the unlikely becomes really, really cool, and I love that. I love a character portrait that I think, in all honesty, is it's the variety that keeps me on my toes and enjoying it so much. I get to meet all kinds of people so and there is something about portraiture, I don't know whether it's to do with the fact that when you take someone's photo, they feel a bit vulnerable, or that they have to put their trust in you something like that, but they there's so many people I find really open up and tell you so many things, and to a level that perhaps they haven't told anybody else. I don't know what it is. We sometimes refer to it as like the therapy room as well, because sometimes they come in and people have told me all sorts of things, and it's lovely, because they obviously, you know, put a level of trust in you. But it just makes my job so interesting. I'm interested in people, and therefore, whoever I'm photographing, if I'm photographing a pregnant lady, and you know, suddenly, you know, she turns up, and I don't realize, you know, the story behind it, all of a sudden we're talking, and then she tells me that this is their 15th try of IVF, and they've been struggling for years. And you know, it's all of a sudden, you, you get a real insight into somebody's world. You're not just taking it at face value of, oh, it's just a bump portrait. It's suddenly, it's someone's story. And then you, you look at it. I certainly look at things with slightly different viewpoint, and perhaps subconsciously, maybe how I pose them or like them. Perhaps it might have gone in the story may have gone into my subconscious, and I want to tell a bit more of their story in a less obvious way. Maybe I don't know. It's just, I love the fact that it just keeps it interesting. And each person has got a story to tell, and it's great. I love it so much fun.
Angela Nicholson
With Malcolm, the scary fisherman, were you literally just walking around the harbor trying to find someone to photograph? Or had he contacted you, or you contacted him before, or something like that?
Hannah Couzens
No, 100% that's how it was. We went down to that. So basically, what we decided to do is we went down to we had a week, two weeks in Cornwall, and we were basically filming a tutorial series, which is on YouTube. And we wanted different subject matters to show different types of settings on the camera. So, for instance, we needed something to show aperture. We needed something to show vocal points. We needed something for composition. We needed something for shutter speed. So we found a surfer for shutter speed. Yeah, it went on and on. And then we found this, you know, this lovely little harbor, and found little, you know, Mavigissey Harbor, which is somewhere that my parents have been to many times. And we're like, go down there. I'm sure you'll find someone. And we were asking the Harbor Master and people, we were like, is there anyone that, you know, we need someone to photograph? It would be great if we could get out on the boat. And, you know, they were like, Oh yeah, there's Malcolm. Like, everybody knows Malcolm, but you know, he's a bit scary. And we were driving, we drove back down there, like, Oh, he's out at the moment, but he'll be back in once he's finished his morning catch sort of thing. And we came back in, and we drove past, I went, I bet you, I bet you, that is him. I saw this guy, and I just thought, he's got, he's got so much character in charisma, like I could see it, and I was literally I said, Are you Malcolm by any chance? And now that he looks at me like, who are you? What do you want? Yes, I am. But wait, why? What? It was very funny.
Angela Nicholson
Who said what?
Hannah Couzens
Pretty much from there I know exactly, and it turned since then, he has become like, he just does this all the time. Now I think people have seen how awesome he is. He was on a BBC show afterwards, and it's just I joke with him. Now, if I get the chance to see him, I'm like, Have you got time for me in your portfolio and, like, in your schedule, et cetera, to fit me in, or you too busy with all the other things, but it was lovely. It was one of those chance meetings where we were literally looking around for somebody that looked and also, I know this sounds ridiculous, but also looked like a fisherman. Because, of course, you know, like you're kind of somebody that had a very weathered face and, you know, that looked like they did the job. Because, of course, all kinds of people, you know, do all kinds of jobs these days. Yes, young women that are out there doing it. Yeah, there's young men. But yeah, this, this guy in particular. I loved the fact that his hat was probably about 50 years old and had been out there every day, and, yeah, his sweater was filthy, and I loved it. I was like, that's what I want. I don't want any clean here. I want, I want the real deal. So it's great.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, fantastic. Now, I was going to ask you, how you keep your photography fresh and interesting for you, but I think you've probably just answered the question.
Hannah Couzens
Yeah, kind of I feel, I mean, I have. I did find myself making a bit of a mistake last year, so, and this is the first time this has happened in a long time. So this was probably around, sort of autumn, late summer, autumn time in, yeah, 2024, and for the first time in a long time, I felt the pressure to change what I did. And in looking back now, I kind of wish I could have gone back and punched myself in the face, because then don't be so silly. But at the time, things were pretty tricky. Things were work was getting very quiet. I didn't really understand why had I should what should I be doing? Should I be, uh, changing my style a bit more. Everything's very fashionable to be very sort of, like, I was looking at trends and what people seem to like on Instagram, of, of, you know, this is more to do with family portraiture and things like that. And I was thinking, Oh, perhaps I should, you know, be shooting in such, you know, this way, like, maybe a little bit flatter, less shadows and a bit like this, and a bit like that, you know, maybe I should try and. And be doing a bit more of this work, because is that the reason that I'm not getting booked right now? It was a very hairy time. And looking back now, and having spoken to everybody else, it seems like that was the same for a lot of people. I think everybody was hanging on to find out what the result of all the changes were going to be politically. And it was very, you know, people weren't really doing anything whereas, like, all of a sudden, now it's like, oh, everything's go again. But for that short period of time, I found myself getting caught up in something that I really shouldn't have been paying attention to. I was looking at the I was trying to think, what am I doing wrong? And turns out, I wasn't doing anything wrong. There's just other things that your outside influences that change. I should know this. This is my 20th year in business, but I, for the first time in a long time, had felt like perhaps I should adapt to what other people are doing. And then just before Christmas, I ended up doing some work for Sony, and I was given, I was lent the new Alpha 1 Mark II, and I had some models in. And I went back to shooting for myself. And I made some images which are and I was soon as I made them, I was creating them, and I was doing what I was doing in the studio. Things that I wanted in my head were coming to life, and I loved it, and I was like, that's, that's, that's it, that's me, that's me, that's what I do, and this is what this is what you're good at. This is what you should be doing. And I think whatever had taken me off course suddenly came back on track. And it made me think, I think the thing is, sometimes we think maybe we should be doing more, maybe we should be not keep doing the same style. Maybe we should mix it up a bit, maybe we should branch out a little bit. And every time I go to do that, I always end up coming back again and realizing that your style is your style, and it should be your style for a reason. It's like if you're gonna and people know what to expect. So for us, it's the same. So when I was younger, I fell in love with single light portraits. I thought they were absolutely beautiful. They were the things that I loved, and that's what I create a lot of. And then I start to look at my imagery, and I think all this looks the same. And then, yeah, of course, it looks the same because that's your style, and that's the point. It looks the same, and it might look boring to me because I'm creating it, and yes, they might all look the same, but for somebody that wants to come and hire me, they're going to hire me for my style or not. They're going to go to somebody else if they don't like that style. But if I start dabbling around and mixing around and kind of losing my way and losing my style, people aren't necessarily going to know what they're going to get. So it was a huge reminder to me to stop faffing around with other things and to stick to your path and stop thinking what might be, what might I think? What it was is, I was thinking, What is the reason right now? What is it? And you don't always want to think it's something external. You don't necessarily want to think, oh, it's probably the economy, or, Oh, it's a change in government, or, you know, people are waiting. Yeah, you don't. I thought that in the back of my mind, because I've been through two double digit recessions, but at the same time, I thought, but what if it isn't? Maybe it's what if it's you, what if it's that you're not doing enough? Maybe, if you're not, maybe trends are changing, and perhaps you need to change too. And that's what I did, and I and I was, I did change things a bit, and I was just really bored and really unhappy, and I was producing work that I just felt was not it wasn't fulfilling me at all. I was like, This is not me. This is really silly. It's like putting somebody else's shoes on. I was like, What are you doing? Yeah, so it's, it was really nice to have that opportunity in December to suddenly get in for four days with models have no brief. For once, I wasn't working to anybody else's brief, and I just made what I wanted to make. I was like, Oh, she's back. I haven't lost it. I still it's still in there. The thing that I'm best at and the thing that I'm known for, keep doing it basically and stop fapping around with other stuff.
Angela Nicholson
I think that's a good, good advice. But also, I think your your initial reaction is quite understandable, because, okay, you said in the back of your mind the economic situation was, was there, but you can't control that. But what you can control is what you do and the photographs that you you make. So it's kind of like a natural reaction and say, well, I'll play with this a bit. And so, yeah, it must be really nice to everything come back online and you can just go back to what you're really good at.
Hannah Couzens
Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think there's kind of being the two of us, myself and my other half, being self employed. It kind of it takes nerves of steel at times to ride it out. I'm used to it to a degree because of the amount of time that I've been doing it. However, it still got to me last year. Was like, okay, at what point were you were used to being able to control things or do something or, you know, try to create some more content, or do something else, or, yeah, and I was like, Oh, how long this is getting a bit unnerving now, a bit unsettling. And it turned and I spoke to some other of my friends, you know, within the industry, and some of my colleagues. And it's it kind of it was good and bad. There's that safety in numbers, feeling that it wasn't just me. It was happening to other people. But then at the same time, you think, Oh, Jesus, this is happening to all of us. What's happening to our industry? Is this a bad this is a bad sign for our industry. But thankfully, things seem to have picked up again for everyone, which is great, and that's all we all we really care about moving forward, is that you saw just had this thing for a minute where you're going, Oh, is this AI? Is this happening and coming in and people don't want this? Is it? I don't know. Just not sure. I wasn't 100% sure what it was and if it was gonna redeem itself or not. That, yeah, you're right. That lack of control bit scary.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah. Now you run a lot of courses and teach photography quite a bit. So what led you to that?
Hannah Couzens
That I fell into kind of by accident, but again, another moment where I was like, oh, okay, I have a friend. I have an American friend and his wife, they are kind of at the end of their career. Well, they are retired, but they've been very successful, not photography, nothing like that. Like director of Swiss bank. One works at Apple, you know, like they're very, very successful couple. And I remember I used to, I love them, I adore them. And I met up with this guy in particular, just met up with him for coffee, just to catch up, really, and I was ranting about I'd been to, this is when I was younger. I'd been to a workshop, and I thought I was so surprised, I was like the level of what the teaching was and the way that people were being spoken to, and it was very much kind of a very holier than thou thing. And I was ranting basically to John, I was just saying to him, was like, I was, I was at this, this place, and, yeah, I just, I don't like the way that they were talking to the people in the audience on that. I don't really, I don't understand why so many people are there, because I feel like, you know, it's not, it wasn't really good quality stuff, and I feel like the way that people were being spoken to wasn't very nice, and things were explained, but they weren't, something was being kept back. And I was like, but there was so many people there. And he said, I in the way that he does, he just looked at me and he just went, Okay, so what does that tell you? Look, I don't know. And he said that there's no alternative. So be the alternative. Hannah, right? And I was like, oh. And they, he has a way of just, of just holding a mirror up in front of you and kind of go, oh, yeah, okay, right?
Hannah Couzens
Yeah, I can't I have no answer. I have nothing to go back with. I'm like, he's 100% right? Yeah. Okay. And so I thought, after I thought long and hard about it, and I really felt that, oh, I'm not sure that I'm somebody that could be in a position to do this. But then and I said that to him, I said, Oh, yeah, but there's so many good photographers out there. He said, Well, they're not going to be the people that are coming the people that are coming on your course, aren't they? You had to start somewhere. And so you went, you it's going to be beginners and people that don't know anything that are going to be coming on your course. It's not going to be people that know it all. They're going to come to your course. And again, oh yeah, he's right. And so that kind of got me over that initial like, fear of, Oh, should I be doing this? And I thought, well, I'll just advertise it, and just, I'll do a small course in my studio, my first ever course, and just do it like simple portrait lighting, one, one light, very, keep it very simple. And it sold out, and I did it, and then I did it again, and I did it again, and I was like, Oh, actually, I really enjoy this. I love this. This is brilliant. Because being what I really love is having when you literally see people, when you see it click, where it all just falls into place, and they get it, and all of a sudden what seemed like this complete foreign language, this complete kind of, like smoke and mirrors thing suddenly explained in a very simple, methodical, logical way. And they do it themselves, and then they get it. It's lovely. And I still to this day, that's the thing that I love the most. I love seeing people go, oh yeah, I do. I could do it now. I make people go and do it themselves on my course as well. I'm like, Okay, I've shown you now. Now you got to set it up for yourself, and then they do it, and they take a shot, and they're so proud of it and so happy with it. I'm like, job done. I love this. This is brilliant. Now you can fly the nest off your own babies, go do it yourself. I love it. It's such a nice feeling. And I guess I just got. Addicted to that. I got so I loved that. It was so, so nice. And, yeah, still, like I say to this day, that is something that I really, really love to see in people. I love to be the person that maybe translates the jargon, puts it into real terms. And, you know, isn't afraid to say how it is, or what other people think of me, or how I do it. I'm like, This is how I do it, and I've had a business for 20 years, and it works for me. And there's going to be other people that probably don't like what I do, or wouldn't do it the same way as me, but if you like what I do and you want to get similar results, I'll show you how I do it, and that's as simple as that. If you don't, then don't come.
Angela Nicholson
I agree with what you say about helping people create images that they're really pleased with but one thing I would say about your style of teaching is you are not a gatekeeper. You know, you break it down and make it very easy for people to understand. So, you know, it's an enjoyable experience.
Hannah Couzens
Oh, thanks, Ange, that's really nice. I mean, I guess that probably comes from those days where I was attending these workshops. And many people have said this. They're like, I've never heard, you know, I did the swpp road show last year, and one thing in particular that I'd always do is show people how to photograph people with glasses. And so many people would come up to me or write to me afterwards and say, I've been to so many things no one has ever showed us that I feel like it's the thing that nobody wants to share. And I'm like, But why not? Because we're all taking pictures, and the more that we all can share some knowledge, the better our pictures are going to be. And so why it's not like I'm the person that invented it, and I have this thing that I'm going to paint it and never tell anyone. It's like everything that has been done at least once before, and so in some way, shape or form, and for me, I just like to tell people the simple way. I don't feel like it doesn't I don't know. I don't know why people make it more complicated than it needs to be. Maybe I've definitely seen some people have take a look. Well, when, when you get to my level, perhaps you might understand the kind of, you know, view of it. But for me, I'm like, Come on, dude, just press the button and show him what happens. Like just say in normal language. You know, it's really simple. Why are we making this more complicated? I really don't understand it. So that's really, that's really nice to hear. And I'm sure many the SheClickers will probably know that down to earth and a bit of a fool is my is my style, but I like it. It's fine.
Angela Nicholson
Good. Yes, long may that continue. Now you're a Sony imaging ambassador. How did that come about, and what impact has it had on your career?
Hannah Couzens
Sometimes sort of ask these questions. I wonder whether I should tell the truth. It sounds terrible.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, now you said it, you've got to say,
Hannah Couzens
I know. No, it's it was a very again, it blindsided me. It's one of these really strange set of circumstances, because I'm fully aware that there's people that write to me, and there's lots of people out there that would be desperate to be in my position, and they, you know, asked me all the time, how did you become an ambassador? How did you do it? And I was like, um, somebody walked on to me. So I was at the photography show. It was, I can't remember the year, um, but it was a dreadful year where it snowed. And there was that day where hardly anybody came. And it was, it was a bit, oh, yeah, depressing. It was, do you remember that year? It was, it wasn't very, it wasn't very, it wasn't going so snowy. One of the days where it snowed and yeah, and suddenly, out of nowhere, I'd been doing, I was doing lots of presentations for Profoto, and I had finished my presentation, and I got off the stage, and this lady comes up to me, and she said, Hannah. I was like, hello. And she's like, I need you to do something for me. And she She held out her hand, and she put this business card in my hand, and she said, promise me, before the end of the day, you'll go over to the Sony stand and go and speak to this guy. I was like, why? I'm like, what? Like, what, what, why, what, who, how, what is this about? And she said, he's desperate to get hold of you. He can't get hold of you. Blah, blah, blah. So I was like, this is weird, but Okay, fine. So there I was, never picked up a Sony before in my life, and I went over to stand, and I was sitting there patiently waiting for this guy to finish talking, because he clocked me, and he was in conversation with somebody. And so I just sat at the Sony bar, and somebody walked past. So who I still, to this day, don't know who it was. And somebody shouted at me. They were like, are you switching to Sony? Hannah? And I was like, this is weird. Just because I'm sat on the Sony stand, I don't know what's happening, what's happening and and then I finally spoke to this guy, and he said to me, I've been trying to get hold of you for ages. Are you not? Are you not contracted with somebody else? And I was like, No, I'm not. I'm not. Yeah, I don't have it. I don't have any Ambassador skin. I work with pro photo. But no, no cameras, no. And he said, Oh, I really think that you'd benefit from using our kit, because I saw a video that you did with with Wex and, or the, yeah, the amount of lenses and the camera bodies and everything else that, like everything that you packed, that you showed us you were packing. In the weight of it all is that I think you'd really enjoy using the kit we'd love for you to sort of try it out and just give us your honest opinion that okay, so well, this wasn't on my radar. This wasn't something, this isn't something that I was thinking of doing, or I don't have any issues with my setup at the moment. But okay, and I actually there's a lie. I had tried mirrorless. I tried another brand. I want to be a bit careful here, because I don't want to talk badly about any brands, because I think they're all They're all brilliant in their own way. But I tried another brand, a mirrorless camera, in the early stages, and it just wasn't for me and and I thought it was because it was mirrorless. I thought I hate mirrorless. And I actually said to this guy. I was like, I tell you, now, I've tried mirrorless with, you know, but I don't really, I couldn't really get on with it, so I'll try it, but I don't know, I'm not sure about this, but yeah, let's give it a go. It was like nothing to lose, and they kindly lent me an A7R III, 'm trying to think whether there was a lens as well, or whether I had it, I think, I think I just had an adapter at the time and was still using my other lenses on it. Or maybe, maybe it was a bit of both. Maybe they let me into one lens. And I took a trip to Santorini. So I was doing, I was over in Santorini and shooting some portraits. I didn't go over there to shoot the portraits at this stage. This is just when I went over there for a break. But some friends of hours of photographers over there. And we went out. I was shooting with with my friends, and we all had different makes of camera. We got back, and we looked at the files, and my and Santorini being that the whites, oh, the whitest you've ever seen, and the shadows are the blackest that you've ever seen. The contrast in that light out there, and how it works is unreal. And the detail across the whole of my image blew the others out the water, and that was where I was like, Oh, wow, interesting. And they were like, how have you got that? I was like, I haven't got anything. It's just that, you know, it's the talk. It must be the key. It has to be because we were all we were all stood in the same place, shooting the same thing. It's just that this is blowing my mind as much as it's blowing yours. This is crazy. So the dynamic range was off the charts. That is, that was a real moment for me that I just, yeah, not. That's something I massively rely on as such. But it was just so impressive. It was just so it was, it was suddenly felt like such a step forwards.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah.
Hannah Couzens
And then what I started to do, and of course, you know what it's like when you've got a new a new camera or a new system or anything else, it seems to be that they all want to put, you know, you know, if you've got the shutter speed dial on here, then it's upside down and inside out on the another model where it's nothing's in the same place. Nothing works the same way. They have to do it completely differently.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah.
Hannah Couzens
So what I was starting to do is I'd start my sessions. I was using it a little bit more. When I got back to the studio, I was like, Okay, well, that was fun for the trip, but what's it like in the studio and I'd slip my sessions in half, I'll end up shooting with my previous camera, and then I'd be using the Sony for the second half. And more and more and more over the time that passed, I found myself picking the Sony up. I was like, there is something really lovely about this. There's, there's many things that now and then I get the files out of it, and then the resolution, oh. I was like, wow, this is mad. And the sharpness and the quality. And when I put them side by side, I was like, this shouldn't be that much of a jump, but it really is. It's very impressive. And so it was, I thought, oh. And I just, I did say to them, I said, and like, thanks very much for lending me the kit. This is, this is great. Yes, I'm very interested in it is. It is really great. It's probably something that I'd need to make a transition to slowly, because, you know, it's yes, you have a big investment into one system to change it all over is going to take a while. And that, they were like, Yeah, of course, of course. No, we wouldn't. We're not asking you to change. We just wanted your opinion on things like, so on that note as well. Would you feel? Like, how would you feel if you wanted to, like, we'd like to have you as part of the team. What do you mean we're talking about? They're like to be one of our ambassadors. I was like, I don't think that's a very good idea. I'm probably the worst saleswoman at this as well, so I said. And they were like, What do you mean? Your cameras and these systems and these menus do so many wonderful things, but there's so many wonderful things that I can tell you now I'm not going to care about I'm I'm not going to be interested in the whole shebang and the ins and outs of all of this camera, because I'm just not wired up that way. Lights, yes, cameras, less. So it's more of a tool, a tool for me, the creative part for I mean, yes, it sounds a bit black and white, but yeah, the tool has to be amazing, don't get me wrong, because it has to capture everything in the first place. But it's like. That great old saying of your your your camera takes great pictures. It's like, it's not just the camera, is it? It's the operator and what you do with it, yeah, um, but we still, nonetheless, having, you know, good quality piece of kit is fantastic. But I said to them, like, if you want me to be one of these people, that's going to tell you the ins and outs of every page on the back of this menu, it's not me, because I'm not going to care about that and go into the detail that you probably want me to. They're like, No, no, no. That's why we want you. They're like, it's like, hang on. This makes no sense, right now. I don't know what you're talking about. They're like, No, we want you to use the camera in a way that you want to use it, and just that, nothing else. And I was like, okay, they said, that's why we have different ambassadors. We have ambassadors that shoot like you would be shooting portraits. So you would be able to speak to all the other portrait photographers that are out there and show them the way that you use the camera, the lenses that you use, the settings that you use, how the system benefits you. And then for somebody else who shoots sports, we have different cameras, and we have different ambassadors, and they talk about different focus modes and and it's great, because we went on a trip, I was out there with Alan Crowhurst, and he photographs a lot of horse racing and sports and all of that. And just us too, being side by side was fascinating, because how we use the camera, and I was asking. I was like, whoa, whoa, what? Because we were, we were photographing some horses coming around the track. And I was like, Wait, what are you supposed to focus on that? And he was like, No, you gotta go with it. Girl, follow it, you know? And it was amazing. It was so interesting, because I had, you know, you think my background of sports? I was like, Oh, this takes me back. But this is scaring me, yeah? This is, I, this is not how I use my camera at all. And then he came in with me, I was doing portrays, and he it was completely different for him as well. So it really opened my eyes to kind of go, yeah, that's all right. That's okay, that we don't have to know everything about everything. We just have to do what we do in a way that we use it and enjoy it and share that with other people and why we use it, and maybe that's helpful to people, or maybe it won't be, but yeah, I specifically remember saying to them, I don't think that's a very good idea, but it turns out it was probably all right, because I'm still there.
Angela Nicholson
I was gonna say, you've been an ambassador for quite a long time now.
Hannah Couzens
Yeah, I was trying to think, is that maybe seven or seven or eight years? Now, I think it's quite a long time. It's, it's, has it been that long? Maybe it has. It's flown. It really has flown by. Um, so I think it's definitely seven years, maybe, yeah, I'm not sure. So it's been a long time, but again, something that I wasn't pursuing and not so and but I suppose what I would say is that activity breeds activity. Because I was making videos, because I was working the videos that I'd made down in Cornwall, which didn't go anywhere, that was a complete flop. They nicely made things, but nightmare business partner. That's the end of that story. So we let that one crash and burn. But if I hadn't have done that, that might not have led me to be on on camera, which then wouldn't have been seen by Wex. If that didn't work with Wex, Sony wouldn't have seen me working with Wex. So I feel like it's a combination of, the more you do, the more activity you do, the more you put stuff out there, the more people see you. See what you're like, yeah, and you're not going to be everybody's cup of tea, and that's absolutely cool as well. It's just a case of, if it fits, and people think that you're going to work well for their brand, and it's a good fit, then the potential for working together is there. But if you don't put anything out, or you don't put yourself out, I know it's difficult, it does feel awkward, but the more things that you can do, document your day, share things, whatever it is. I mean, trust me, it's I get that it's an effort. It's not something, believe it or not, it isn't something that comes naturally to me. It's something that I've learned to do as part of marketing over the years. But then, because I've seen results of that marketing, I realized that it is worth pursuing, is worth doing. So the more you can do, the more chance that you've got people seeing it and picking it up, and opportunities coming your way, I guess is the is the blunt answer.
Angela Nicholson
Do you build time into your day or your week specifically to do that kind of thing?
Hannah Couzens
So I should, to be honest, Angela, this is something that I really need to work on. I think in an ideal world it would be if my life wasn't like it is having two very small children, and, you know, juggling everything that I'm already juggling it, we should factor it in. How we tend to work is because my other half is a videographer. We work together, and we make the videos together. The difficulty is there, of course, is that requires both of us to be in there with filming without the kids, because, of course, they're going to be around their ankles or whatever. And so we don't have, Knut's family are from Norway. I don't have my I lost my mom and my dad still works. So we don't have, it's just us. We don't have, like, an extended support network. Work or people that we could drop them around to, or, you know, something like that. But on the when it's mum is fabulous. She comes over to help us out. She'll be over for TPS and various things like that. But when she comes over to help out, sometimes what we try to do is just film, film, film, film, back to back for sort of three or four days, try and cram in as much content as we can, and then edit it and put things over. But no, I mean, in an ideal world, you know, YouTube in particular was something that we feel like we should probably be turning our attention to. A lot more I do. I will do Instagram stories as much as I can when I feel like I've got a, you know, job that's worth people seeing and as much as I can share as well, because, of course, the clients have to be happy with that setup as well. I can't just start randomly filming people. I'll make them feel nervous and put them off. But certainly, if I'm going to people's offices, I will show people the room that I've been designated and how I'm set up, what kit I'm using. And you know when, hopefully when the clients themselves have finished and put different images on the website. I can say this is this website that they've it's out in the public now. So this is what I've shot that was a result of this day. And I've had many people contact me saying, Oh, wow. I thought that, you know, perhaps a photographer like you would be given much more space than you are, and be a lot more glamorous buildings. I'm like, you kidding? I'm always in. I'm always, never glamorous. I'm always in some horrible, dingy, little room somewhere. And, you know, the focal, like, you know, range that I have to bring because I never know where I'm going to be is massive. So, yeah, it's um, things like that. I enjoy sharing because it shows people the real life. The real out there working. It's not done for YouTube, it's not done for social media. It's real life. This is me out here working, and this is me doing a real job, and I like to share that as much as possible.
Angela Nicholson
Nice. Now you're going to be at the Photography Show next month, the 8th to the 11th of March, London. ExCel, are you going to be demonstrating any Sony technology or kit, or are you going to be talking about lighting?
Hannah Couzens
Yes, a bit of everything, to be honest Angela, it's going to be, it's going to be good fun. I'm quite excited for it to be at ExCel, just like because it's down the road. No, it will be interesting to see how it goes. Because, of course, we've been used to it being at the NEC for so long. But yeah, I'm gonna be there. I will be there on the eighth. So Saturday, the eighth, I will be there. I'm doing a live stage talk about that's not that about lighting. So that's there. I mean, of course, I'm using my Sony kit the whole time. So that is concentrating on lighting that is called One Light Wonders. And it's basically for sort of anybody that is just starting to get to learn flash, get to know flash for the first time, I want to just show people how versatile you can, you can make it, and that you don't need to have 1000s of lights and always use a multiple complex setup or anything. It's like, you can get some really effective results just with one light. And like I always say to people, if you don't know what you're doing with bond light, there's no point buying anymore, because you've got to master one before you really go on to the others. I so that'll be fun. That's the that's the One Light Wonder. I think that's like 12:30 it's like, right in the middle of the day, on on the first day. So that's going to be a fun one. Yeah, I'm in. I think I'm doing a panel on the Sony stands.
Angela Nicholson
Oh yes, yes, you are.
Hannah Couzens
With you, I believe as well. Are you involved in this?
Angela Nicholson
Yes, that's right, yes.
Hannah Couzens
Yay.
Angela Nicholson
It's yes, you myself and Kate Kirkman, so it should be fun.
Hannah Couzens
And Kate, yes, I was, yeah, definitely. I heard that there was rumor that perhaps you would be there with us, but I didn't know if it was confirmed that, yay. That's good, excellent.
Angela Nicholson
I'm gonna be there.
Hannah Couzens
I'm glad that you are. That is brilliant.
Angela Nicholson
Looking forward to that should be fun.
Hannah Couzens
That's gonna be really fun. And then on the Monday, I've just heard an email through Monday the 10th, back on Sony stage, I'll be showcasing at the A7R V and the 85mm, my favorite lens, the GM Mark II. And I'll be doing a live flash demo. I love to do this. I love to do live demos, because what could possibly go wrong, everything. But I love it. It's great fun, and I feel like it's it's fun to share. You know, if it goes wrong, it goes wrong, but I enjoy it. And yeah, I'll definitely be showcasing just the kind of how the Sony system and the work that it affects my workflow, and how it's just been so much easier and nicer for me to get images that are kind of straight out of the camera that I'm, you know, I really am. I haven't got, I'm not patient with editing. I haven't got time to sit there, and, yeah, now I have two small kids as well. I have no time to do anything. So the better I can get it straight out of camera using good glass, exposing, right? You know, kind of lighting, right? It really speeds up my workflow. And there's various things I'll be, you know, showcasing the wireless, tethering, all those sorts of things that really do make a difference to my workflow. So be looking forward to doing that on the Monday as well. Be good fun.
Angela Nicholson
Great. Yeah, that sounds really good. Okay. Well, I think it's a good time to go to six from SheClicks. I've got 10 questions from SheClickers, and I would like you to answer six questions by picking numbers from one to 10, please. So can I have your first number, please?
Hannah Couzens
I love this part. I love this one. Listen to everybody else's answer. Okay, let's start. Let's go with number eight.
Hannah Couzens
Number eight. What if anything? Do you photograph when you're not shooting for work. Do you shoot personal projects? For example, that question is from Liz.
Hannah Couzens
Good question. Liz, so of course, and this is terrible, but we always have our phones in our pockets, and it's like, you know, what's the best camera, the one that you've got with you? So I'm always taking photos of, you know, stuff and things. But I, you know, I would say, I mean, I do, there is something about I have have spent some time doing some landscape work. And my other half, before being a videographer, is a photographer, and he has photographed all the Northern Lights, of course, whereas from a Norway and whilst it's freezing, there is something beautiful and quite quite relaxing and tranquil about it. I quite like that complete contrast to me having to talk constantly in
Angela Nicholson
Yeah,
Hannah Couzens
with what I do to put the client at ease, etc, when photographing a person, sometimes to just go out when it's still dark, and you go out for a sunrise, and then you, I don't know, there's something lovely about that. I really, I've been on to some pretty incredible places in the world, and I think sometimes getting up for a sunrise and going out and it's dark and it's cold, and you don't know, is it going to be a good one? Was it was going to happen? Gonna get any color? But I don't know what's going to happen. It's completely unpredictable, which I know is the bane of most landscape photographers lives, because they have to go to the same place 50 times in order to get one shot that they love. But I like, I like the contrast sometimes, of just the peace, the quiet, and, you know, not knowing what you're going to get, whereas, of course, what I always work with with artificial light, so I can create the light that I want, and it's sometimes to just throw it open to the world and just be like, right, mother nature, your turn. What are you going to give us? I quite like that. I find that quite fun and quite quite relaxing. I would love to say that I would do it. I don't get to do it as often as I as I used to now, but it's, um, yeah, as lovely as a really nice thing to do. So I guess, I guess that would be my thing.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, it's interesting. You described a completely different Hannah to the one I know. So maybe we should go along sometime. I'd be interested to see how it goes.
Hannah Couzens
I mean, there is it, sometimes I'm quiet and sometimes.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, so could I have your second number please?
Hannah Couzens
Oh, yeah, four, please.
Angela Nicholson
Number four, do you prefer shooting on location or in the studio? Several people asked that one.
Hannah Couzens
It's a very good question, because there's benefits to both. So the good thing about, of course, working in the studio is that, no matter, there's nothing that can that can change what you're going to do, you don't have to worry about any outside influence, like the weather or anything else that you can shoot in the middle of the night if you want to, because I don't use natural light, you know, there's no there's no restrictions. So you are, you can shoot basically whatever, whenever, and there's, there's no restrictions on that. However I do, like I love to incorporate an environment as well as something fun about it's definitely more of a challenge. I think, I think it's definitely more of a challenge when you turn up somewhere and you know, you're you're lighting on location, and you've got to balance it. And then there's something you find out. There's a really annoying glow coming from somewhere in the back. It's a lamp that you can't turn off. And the all the challenges that come with that I feel like working on location keeps me on my toes more. And yeah, this the studio is safe. To me, the studio is safe because everything's controlled. But occasionally it's nice to be thrown out of that, because what is it that's, you know, comfort breed?
Angela Nicholson
Is it complacency or something?
Hannah Couzens
But yeah, basically saying, the more comfortable you get, the you know, you're going to crush yourself creatively. So it's good to throw yourself in the deep end and go out to the unpredictable sometimes. And we definitely had that when we did a few of the roadshows. Definitely we were doing some of these Pro Photo road shows, is that we would turn up to these events, and in the morning we'd get there very late at night, and in the morning, I had to host 20 people and get some shots and figure out where we were going to shoot, and maybe I can't tell where the light's coming from, because it's dark and I won't know till the morning. And it was a real challenge, because the pressure was on, and I imagine it's probably the same for people that shoot anything on location, but especially weddings and things as well. It's kind of like, well, here it is. This is what you've been given today, and this is what you've. Got to work with and try and balance. So I would say, I don't, I wouldn't say that I really had a preference. I would say the comfort is the studio, but the location is, when you nail a location shot, it is, it is very nice feeling. It's a very satisfying feeling. So I feel that probably both have, both have their, you know, their benefits in different ways.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, thank you. Your third number, please?
Hannah Couzens
I'm going all evens. Let's go six.
Angela Nicholson
Number six, Right, so this is from Philippa. Becoming a member of the BIPP at such a young age was a remarkable achievement, not only for the recognition of your talents as a photographer, but also for your successful business model, where does your business sense come from? Did you have a mentor? Was it a qualification in business studies, or are you innately business savvy?
Hannah Couzens
Oh, that's really nice. Thank you. Philippa. Um, so my my parents aren't well as I always felt like my mum was in the wrong job. My mom was an accountant, and my dad is somewhat of a chemist, not not in the medicine like in the lab sense. So they refine... their company.
Angela Nicholson
You make him sound like a crack dealer now.
Hannah Couzens
Honestly, for a while, I called him Heisenberg because he was like, that's pretty much what my dad could do. Is Right, okay, he will come out like, he knows every kind of, you know, yeah, he's like, he works in precious metals and recovery and recycling the precious metals. So it's, you know, okay, it's all these platinum, rhodium, things that that has not passed through to me, as you've seen, no interest or knowledge in that area at all. But my mum was always quite creative. She loved taking photos, and she loved floristry and things like that. So I felt that my mum, my mum, actually ended up working with me in the end, which was lovely. Not taking photos, but she did my front of house and everything like that. But to us, and I suppose the way I've been brought up is that most business was generally just common sense. It just, it's, it doesn't, it sounds like an obvious thing, but, and that's a phrase when people say, common sense isn't that common, but it's, it just seems like a logical thing to think about. I definitely didn't have, I've not had any formal business education. No, nothing like that. No courses, nothing at all. I mean, a complete rookie, I had a very strong interest in biographies and things of business people of all walks of life, you know, that kind of my early 20s. So I read lots of biographies, and sort of realized how people sort of broke it down. And what was quite refreshing to see is a lot of the people and these entrepreneurs, that I had seen and followed were just people that did what they felt was right. They didn't have any formal education. One book, which was absolutely brilliant, which I'd highly recommend as well, was Jo Malone's book,
Angela Nicholson
Okay.
Hannah Couzens
I took that on holiday with me, and her story was so interesting and really hit home for me in many different ways, but I had when I read that book while I was away, I guess it puts you in a certain frame of mind, because all of a sudden I was thinking about my first talk that I was going to be doing when I came home from holiday but the photography show the first talk I would Ever have done. And I suddenly had this brainwave about using a particular way of lighting to black out a background. And I was thinking, I wonder if that's possible. I couldn't do it until I got home, but the theory was there, and I did it when I got home, and it actually worked. And it was that thing that I'd that I had thought of to do that, then led me to be seen by pro photo, to be on their academy, etc. So maybe reading these books, and it was nothing related, nothing directly related, but maybe it's that thinking a little further outside the box about how you could make things work, or approach things from different angles, because you saw how, or you read how somebody else had done that and not done the obvious. Had really, had really helped. But, yeah, I mean, I did. I did have a friend of mine. His dad was a gentleman called Chris Wiggs, and he invented the very first, well, the very first, the only Polly Pocket. Do you remember those little things the kids toys? He was a toy inventor, basically. And, yeah, he had invented this tiny little toy out of a makeup case for his daughter, Kate, my friend, and his business had gone around the world, and he actually told me like he was a massive, massive, you know, Mattel, Blue Bird, all of this huge, huge, you know, huge, successful business. And he told me when I was 15 that I was unemployable, which I took as the biggest insult.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah.
Hannah Couzens
I was like, Oh, I was heartbroken. I was like, Oh no, there's this person that. So successful, what does that mean? It was like, no, no, no, no. It doesn't mean what you think it means. It means you're an entrepreneur. You are gonna you're not gonna be employed by someone, because you're gonna do things your own way. And then I felt a little bit better about that, because I thought, What have I done wrong? What's so terrible about me? But he just saw it in me straight away. Saw it in me straight away. And yes, he was somewhat of a mentor to me and gave me confidence, and was somebody that I could go to, and again, a completely unrelated business. So I would say to people that if you're not, if you feel like you don't really have much of that in you. I don't. I certainly don't come from a business background at all. But I come from a hard, working, logical, you know, get it done. It must be put this theory into it, and it should work out family and then having these, these people that I met along the way, that I could speak to and reference things with that, even though the businesses don't cross over at all, there's still elements of every single little business and every people, every person's story that you could probably take something from, and it might just stick with you.
Angela Nicholson
I think the fact that they're outside of the business that you're in will make them look at it from a different angle, which could be quite refreshing and helpful.
Hannah Couzens
Definitely. Because, of course, then, you know, sometimes you need somebody to be a bit more objective about things, and therefore look at it in the eyes of a consumer, rather than you being in it. So, yeah, you're exactly right. Having somebody that can look at it with a you know, like from an exterior, is so much better. It's really helpful.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, okay, so your fourth number please.?
Hannah Couzens
Let's go with nine, please.
Angela Nicholson
Number nine. Do you think social media is still important to your work? Several people ask that.
Hannah Couzens
In some respects, yeah, it would depend. Some of my customers follow me on Instagram and see what I'm up to and but I would say that it's probably a very small percentage. I'd say it's probably only about 10% of my customers that follow me for that come to me for portraits, but certainly for the work that I do with the brands and the teaching and the things within the industry, it is massively important, because people need to see what you're doing. How does anybody like how you know, my, I would say that my, my Instagram in particular, is for photographers. It's not for customers. And so therefore, it's, it's very split. I think it very much depends on what genre you shoot and what you do, etc, and how you want to market yourself. But again, I, I kind of keep them, I kind of keep them separate, although I share what I do, you know, I share the day to day. You know, ins and outs of things. What I can't do, of course, is show a lot of people's faces. And I don't really want to ask so much. I don't want to, I don't really want to be one of these people that is just just doing social media to share it, because I feel like that. I The last thing I ever want to do is compromise how my client feels for anything so, because what could that could cost me them coming back again for a second shoot? Because if they feel like, Oh, it was okay, but she was just filming me the whole time, and I felt really awkward about it, and didn't want, you know, I never want that. So perhaps I could sort of delve deeper into that and ask people, and they'd probably be okay with it, etc, but if ever anyone's got their phone out, or, you know, their family's got their their phone out, and they're like, Oh, can we take some behind the scenes? I'm like, Yeah, go for it. Tag me in it. Let's do it. Let's, you know, then I strongly encourage it, and we'll share it. But I don't really want to be the one that instigates it, because I never want the client to feel uncomfortable, so I don't use it in that way, if you see what I mean. And then I always feel like sometimes, if you pre arrange that this is going to be you say to your client, I'm going to film this. Perhaps they might not act as naturally, and you might not get, I don't know, it's just something that there's a bit of a disconnect for me, but so definitely, for getting customers and cuss and clients come into you, I would still say that your website. And having said that, though YouTube, my YouTube channel is on my website, and I think there's a difference between things that have been recorded with intent and people can see you in action behind the scenes, and they that you, because a lot of my customers say, Oh, I watched that video of you when you shot this, or when you shot that. And I'm thinking, How did you say that? And then I'm like, oh, yeah, of course. Because it's on my it's on my channel, which is connected to my website, yeah. But I you know that that part of it is, like, some people might go into it, some people might not, and, you know, some people might want to find out a little bit more about you, but, yeah, I feel like it's the, it's the thing that you kind of, we kind of have to do to a degree, but it's, there's no point shooting for other photographers as well. Like, it's a impressive photographers, because they're not going to come to you, they're only going to come to you for training or coaching or something like that. They're not. It's having said that a few people have come to me for to take their head shots. But yeah, I feel like maybe I feel like I do feel like it's important, but it's certainly not the be all and end all. I'm the person that's never joined tick tock and all this sort of thing. So there's a limit to how much I want it to cross over in my work, I guess.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, fair enough. I think. Can I have your penultimate number please?
Hannah Couzens
Let's go number one, please.
Angela Nicholson
Number one. Oh, this is an interesting one. It seems like quite often you work with teams to achieve your shots. What would you say are the most unexpected positives about working in this way? That question is from Liz.
Hannah Couzens
Ah, thank you, Liz, that's interesting because very often I work alone.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, right.
Hannah Couzens
Um, it's, that's really interesting, that that's, that's, but that isn't that interesting, that there's a perception that's obviously come through, um, as being part of a team.
Angela Nicholson
Perhaps from your videos?
Hannah Couzens
Yeah, that exactly. That's slightly different, because they will be there for, you know, for that, for those jobs and for more commercial jobs, but certainly, if you mean, the people that I work with that are sort of makeup artists, for example, what I don't do, I don't have any assistance. I work by myself. Occasionally. I might have an assistant, if it's a job that, you know, it really would be beneficial. But I don't have I don't have a PA, I don't have an assistant, but when I bring people in, it will be like a makeup artist. As makeup artist I work with, it's just fantastic. And I know that she's so good with with everybody that comes in. And I do build up very strong relationships with the models. I work repeatedly with many models, I like to build good relationships with them, because I feel like the the stronger connection that you can have on on set, and everybody being comfortable and happy better the outcome is going to be so yeah, and some, sometimes I sort of fall into these things by accident, but yeah, I feel like them, but it's helpful. At times. There's a lady that just came on one of my courses a few weeks ago, and she's a florist, and I said to her, Oh, this is great, because that I don't have, like, I have no, no skill set when it comes to that whatsoever. But if ever we want to do something that involves flowers, would you be happy to to help us out? Like, I'd much rather pay her to be able to come and do something with that. She's good at what she does. I'm not good at that. So I feel like the more people that you can pull in, yeah, are really good at what they do, overall, the whole level is going to be lifted. Whereas sometimes when we try to do everything ourselves, and you haven't got necessarily, you know, if you're just starting out, I would say that, you know, you don't necessarily always have to be paying for this. You could be that everybody's in the same boat, and as long as, you know, it's like the old time for print days, you know, if everybody mutually benefits. So everybody's of a good of a, you know, the same the same level. If somebody wants to come and do a set for you, and then you and a model wants some more pictures, and you want some more portfolio, you know, shots, then you will work together to create something, and then you will share the images and use the images for promotion afterwards. That's obviously a way that you can you can do it as well, but the more people that you you can get involved and enjoy working with, as long as it doesn't cause complications or riffs or anything like that, then the better, really.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, yeah. I'm a firm believer in getting people in who are good at what they do and not trying to I mean, I wouldn't. I've never done brick building, you know, never built a wall. So I would automatically employ someone who's, you know, can can put bricks down. And I think the same applies to photography and all elements of that.
Hannah Couzens
Exactly, 100% agree.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, so we've come to the last question. So what is your last number please?
Hannah Couzens
Let's go to number five, please.
Angela Nicholson
Number five. Ah, now this is a really good one to finish on. What advice would you give to anyone looking to become a professional portrait photographer? And several people asked that question.
Hannah Couzens
Brilliant, Excellent, great question. So I would definitely say was somebody once, when I was about 16 and I went on work experience, the guy said to me, portraiture is 80% personality and 20% skill. And I thought, really, is that true? Turns out he's right, you know, he's right to a degree, because your biggest asset is going to be to be able to make people feel comfortable or speak to them in a language that they understand and will react to. You could technically be the most amazing photographer in the world, but if your people skills are slack, the expression on the person's face is going to make or break the portrait. And I've definitely seen this as well. I've seen people that are technically brilliant, but the second they get somebody behind their lens, the way they talk to them, I'm like, Oh, my word. Are you kidding me? Like, where are the basic people? People's skills. You know, it's like, it's fascinating to see. Yeah, so I would, and I haven't always been this way, and I haven't always been this confident. I used to walk down the road and, you know, bury my head and think that everyone was looking at me. I was, you know, they weren't, of course. But, you know, we come a long way, and this job does bring a lot out of you. So I would say that you've genuinely got to be interested in people as well, because if it's fake, people will smell it a mile off, and so they should. But the more if you're if you're genuinely interested in people, and you want to start taking portraits, learn a few things that could perhaps be more flattering for that person, because 90% of people will always think that they don't. They take a terrible photo. They don't like photos of themselves, and they'll tell you all the reasons why they don't. But there are some things that we can do with lights, with posing, with focal length choices, you know, various things like this, that for those people that have never seen themselves lit a certain way, directed in a certain way, and framed a certain way, that you blow their mind, they will see themselves in a whole other light. So if you can just learn some basic things, just even some light patterns for the face, just just to know that if you put the light here, then it will slim the face down. If you put the light over there. It will make it, you know, more broad. If you put it up here, this will show more shadow under here. You know little things, so you know what you're looking for or what's going to happen. Then when you've got somebody in front of you, you can start with that base knowledge and start thinking, Okay, what's going to be the most flattering for this person, and what mood are we trying to create? And then from there, it is just about connection and some posing as well. Posing is a very important part of what we do. And so how to get the body language feeling right and the expression feeling right over the expression is going to come from you. People will mirror you. So the more you can you know, open up and relax and be warm and open with people, your subject is going to do the same. So the more you can be genuinely interested in people. If that's something that you find that you've got a passion for, then go for it. Don't be put off as well. If you find that, oh, I don't think I've got that, because you photograph your family, photographing family members is a disaster, because you will speak to your family in a way that you don't speak to anybody else. And if you're trying to photograph your kids, your kids will not look at you the way that they will look at another photographer with a camera. They will pull a face at you. They will just do whatever. Then you photograph your other half. They'll start. You'll start. Now, why are you pulling that fact? You know that happens is a classic thing that people, of course, you start photographing your family, but they're kind of the worst subjects for you to work with, because we're so brutally blunt, and, you know, with our family, because it's comfortable, yeah, so perhaps, you know, working with friends or friends of friends, you know, like, mix it up a little bit so that you don't think that you're going to be terrible at this than that from the from the get go.
Angela Nicholson
I think that's very good advice. Yes. Well, Hannah, thank you so much for joining me on the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I'm really looking forward to seeing you in person at The Photography and Video Show very soon.
Hannah Couzens
Me too. Thank you so much for having me and thank you to all the SheClickers for the brilliant questions as well. Thank you.
Angela Nicholson
You're very welcome. Thank you. Bye, bye.
Hannah Couzens
Bye.
Angela Nicholson
Thanks for listening to this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. Special thanks to everyone who sent in a question. You'll find links to Hannah's social media channels and website in the show notes. I'll be back with another episode soon, so please subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, X, Instagram and YouTube if you search for SheClicks net, so until next time, enjoy your photography.
