Erica Hawkins: Overcoming Imposter Syndrome and Embracing Creative Confidence
In this inspiring episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast, host Angela Nicholson welcomes Erica Hawkins, a multi-award-winning documentary wedding photographer whose work has graced exhibitions like the National Portrait Gallery’s Taylor Wessing Portrait Prize. With a background in art publishing and a unique, authentic approach to storytelling, Erica has overcome significant personal and professional challenges, including battling cancer, to find a deeper connection to her craft. In this conversation, Erica shares her journey from doubting her abilities to embracing her style, offering insights that will resonate with photographers at every stage of their careers.
Listen to another episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast
From Filmmaking to Photography
Erica was initially drawn to filmmaking, she saw photography as a creative outlet rather than a career option. It wasn’t until her late twenties, after working in art publishing, that she began to explore photography as a profession. Her experience evaluating imagery for high-profile brands gave her a unique perspective on visual storytelling, even if she didn’t immediately recognise its value.
Her first steps into wedding photography came through capturing moments at friends’ weddings, which snowballed into her first bookings. Despite early success, including shooting a wedding featured on Don’t Tell the Bride, Erica grappled with imposter syndrome, often feeling overwhelmed by the responsibility and pressure of wedding photography.
Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
Erica’s candid reflections on imposter syndrome highlight a struggle many creatives face. For years, a negative inner voice overshadowed her achievements, including the incredible recognition of having her portrait work exhibited at the National Portrait Gallery. It wasn’t until her cancer diagnosis in 2020 that Erica experienced a turning point. Faced with life’s fragility, she reassessed her priorities and made a conscious effort to quiet the self-doubt that had long held her back.
“The driving seat in my mind was always that negative voice,” Erica explains. “She just didn’t give me the space to appreciate what I was doing. Whereas that voice is so much quieter now, and there’s room for positive thinking.”
This shift allowed Erica to embrace her unique documentary style, which prioritises genuine moments over technical perfection. By fostering strong connections with her clients, she ensures their comfort while capturing unposed, heartfelt stories that resonate deeply.
Lessons in Confidence and Creativity
Throughout the episode, Erica shares practical advice for photographers. She emphasises the importance of setting clear goals, connecting with a supportive community and understanding the difference between healthy and unhealthy self-doubt. For Erica, success isn’t just about accolades or financial gains; it’s about balancing a fulfilling career with quality time for her family.
Her journey also underscores the value of staying true to your vision. By focusing on the moments that matter most to her and her clients, Erica has carved a niche for herself as a wedding photographer whose work stands out for its authenticity.
Whether you’re a seasoned professional or just starting out in photography, Erica's insights will inspire you to quiet your inner critic and create work that brings you joy.
Connect with Erica
Episode Transcript
Erica Hawkins
The driving seat in my mind was always that negative voice. She just didn't give me the space to appreciate what I was doing, whereas that voice is so much more quieter now that there's room for positive thinking.
Angela Nicholson
Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast, I'm Angela Nicholson, and I'm the founder of SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I talk with women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them and how they got to where they are. Now, this episode is with Erica Hawkins, a multi award winning documentary wedding photographer with a creative eye shaped by her background in art publishing. Her personal projects have earned recognition, including being featured in the National Portrait Gallery for the Taylor Wessing Portrait Prize. After overcoming cancer, Erica gained fresh perspective, and now shares her journey to help others in the creative industry confront imposter syndrome and unlock their potential.
Hi, Erica. Thank you so much for joining me today on the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast.
Erica Hawkins
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk to you.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, fantastic. Thank you. So can we start right at the beginning? What was it that first sparked your interest in photography?
Erica Hawkins
Well, I've always loved photography. It's always been something. I was always the friend with the camera. Took it everywhere, and I didn't really start thinking of it as something that I could do professionally until I was in my late 20s. Before that, filmmaking was the thing that I was probably most passionate about, it felt like a an easy route for me to kind of tell stories. And I loved the medium. I loved playing with cameras, making short films and photography just felt like something that I just did, rather than something that I could do professionally. So, yeah, it was, it was when I was in my mid 20s that I started to kind of think about it more as something I could do for a career. But yeah, it always being, you know, I worked, I worked in the boots lab before I went to uni, developing, developing photos. You know, one of my work experiences was in photography studio. So it kind of ran alongside my passion with films. But it definitely was it, it's kind of cousin, if you know, film was what I was kind of most excited by. So that was quite a shift when, like the ring that when, when I suddenly started to think, oh, actually, photography could be something I could do as a career. So that was quite a big, a big change for my mindset. Did you have another career before you switched to photography? Yeah, I think, I think for probably, like lots of people that go and study film, the reality of working in the film industry becomes very apparent when you realize you don't know many people you don't have the same connections. And it just say, seemed really hard, and I kind of very quickly thought, You know what, I'm not certain that this is the route I want to take anymore, but I knew I was creative. I knew that I wanted a job that would allow me to create. So I kind of started to look for jobs within the creative industries. And I was really lucky that I started off working for an art publishing company, and I was there for about five years, and that was so my role when I started there was literally reviewing imagery that was sold to companies like IKEA, habitat, big high street brands that would sell artwork. And my job was to review the stats and see what imagery was working and what wasn't working. So although I wasn't being creative, like, like, my brain was amongst all this wonderful artwork, and it was kind of seeping into my into my knowledge, you know, every month I would have to review the stats and present the stats to the sales team say, Look, this is what's working at the moment. This isn't working. And, and I think that that daily dose of inspiration was wonderful, and I loved being part of that team. And as I was there throughout the years that my my role progressed, and I ended up working in the publishing department, so I was working directly with the buyers, picking imagery that would that would work, or would work for that season, or for and, yeah, so that was, that was a I really enjoyed that. But again, it kind of felt like it wasn't, I wasn't being hands on with a camera. There was different departments within the art group, and they were to me, they were like they were the proper photographers. They were people. There was retouchers there that knew what they were doing. I was mine was much more, kind of like almost, sales, sales driven and working with buyers and yeah, so not getting to be creative, but very much enjoying artwork on a daily basis. So yeah, that was, um, that was the kind of pre passive for me deciding that I want to start experimenting more.
Angela Nicholson
That sounds like a really interesting grounding.
Erica Hawkins
It absolutely was, and it was one of those ones that I hadn't it took me a little while in my journey to realize how much that position gave me so much knowledge that, you know, a lot of other people just wouldn't have, you know, to really understand what the general public like in terms of their artwork, that this is the artwork that they're literally hanging on their walls. Yeah, and I got a real deep dive into all that knowledge. And we, you know, we could see, you know, why certain landscapes would do better than, you know, say, a portrait. And we could see that, you know, certain formats would do better. So, you know, that kind of knowledge is brilliant, but I hadn't really valued it in terms of becoming a wedding photographer. I hadn't really connected how important they both were until a bit later on in my career. But yeah, it was a brilliant job, and I really enjoyed it. And I think it was one of those things. Unfortunately, the art group went into administration, so it was at that point that I thought, Okay, what else am I going to do? And I think had that not have happened, I probably would have stayed because I was enjoying it, but I wasn't creating. But it was a brilliant job, and I loved learning all about the different artwork. So, so yeah, it was one of those things in hindsight, it's, um, it was a bit of a blessing. You don't realize at the time when things feel like they're going horribly wrong, but actually they're a new, a new venture in your life. And it took, it took a great turn, and definitely encouraged me to decide that I want to be creative. I want a job that I'm actually getting to create. And it was after that that I thought, I can, I need to look for something, but it's not full time, so it gives me the space to actually start to create. Because I think that's the hardest thing to get that started whilst you've got a full time job. So I was able to find another creative part time job and then start to, you know, experiment a bit more with photography. So that's kind of how that started.
Angela Nicholson
So what were your first steps towards professional photography? You said you were working part time, and then sort of bringing some photography into your your life as a career?
Erica Hawkins
Yes, yeah. So it was at a stage. So yeah, I was in my late 20s. Was at that point for a lot of people, where everyone's getting married, all my friends were getting married and and I was really lucky. I've been a bridesmaid seven times, and every time, obviously, I took my camera to the weddings because I love taking pictures. And you know, my friends would start to say, oh, Erica, we really loved your pictures. And I was like, well, Course you did, because I'm your I'm your best friend. I can get into the spaces that that photographer probably can't so I kind of didn't really take it too seriously at that point, but I was getting this, you know, lovely feedback, and I was almost getting a little portfolio of work that kind of made it look like I was shooting weddings. But then one of my best friends, her brother in law, to me, was getting married, and he didn't have a photographer, and he just said, Look, why don't you come along, give it a go, and the pressure wasn't on, because he it was obvious that he hadn't valued photography enough to book a photographer. So that kind of gave me, yeah, gave me a bit of a safety, safety net that I thought, Well, okay, he's, he's happy to take a take a risk. And that was the beginning, and it just kind of snowballed a little bit after that, because, you know, he got married, and then his friends got married, and it just very quickly I had, I had bookings coming in, and it wasn't long after I did that wedding that I got a don't tell the bride book in which to this day, I think it was actually my third wedding. Oh, wow. Where I got this called, I know. And again, I sometimes think that there's, like, the wedding photography Gods eternally. Erica, you're meant to be a wedding photographer. Look at these signs that we placed, like, where they've been there all along. And yeah, the don't tell the bride was definitely one of those ones where, you know, it was, that was about 13 years ago. My website was up and running. I had, you know, a small number of actual weddings on there. But back then, you didn't need that much to be seen, because we just didn't have the same number of websites online. So yeah, for some, some crazy reason, I got this call, and a few days later I shot the don't tell the bride wedding and and that kind of was the beginning of this huge, I think, imposter syndrome for me. Because what that did was it kind of, it made people it was an assumption that my level of experience was higher than it was because I'd done this, don't tell the bride wedding. It was my third wedding. I was still charging like 300 pounds a wedding because I was so fresh. It suddenly started, you know, the huge anxiety and worry and doubt began to to weigh on my shoulders. And so that was very early on, and I could recognize that there was something panicky about weddings that I didn't like. And for a time I was like, I'm not sure I can do many of these, because I was almost having panic attacks before each wedding. My husband was like, 'Erica, I'm not sure you should do too many, because it's, it's become such a huge thing. Every time you do a wedding', he's, like, pulling out his hair, because I'm like, oh god, I've got a wedding. And it was, you know, I couldn't, yeah, yeah. I that the the emotional, feelings that I would attach to my work, and all the things I thought could go wrong, just just weighed on me so heavily. So I didn't, I didn't take on many bookings initially, even though I had, you know, the the snowball effect of, don't tell the bride meant inquiries are coming in. And I was taking, you know, every year, I kind of just took on a handful because I was really nervous. I was like, I'll just do that. I'll keep my other job, because that's safe, that's paying the bills. This is just. We'll see what happens with this. And then I kind of coasted like that for for a few years, where this other safety net of a job kind of kept me, stopped me risking anything, and then I did just enough weddings that I felt like I'd, you know, I could just about call myself a wedding photographer, but yeah, it that, that that worry and that fear really kind of stopped me growing my business, definitely, because I just didn't know how I could, how I could live with that regularly, all the time. So, yeah, so that was, that was a big thing.
Angela Nicholson
There's quite an irony there isn't there, because you have some success and you've got lots of inquiries, which makes you feel an imposter, because, you know, you can't possibly be that good. But equally, if you just had one or two inquiries every now and again, you'd be thinking, Well, I'm clearly not good enough, because nobody's coming to me. And it's like, how do you fight out of that, that circle?
Erica Hawkins
I think this is what makes my story, like a bit unique, in a way, is that I have kind of traveled along it, and I'm at a different point. And there's been a couple of things that have made me realize that my imposter syndrome was something that was very unhealthy. So for me, as in that kind of the early stages of my kind of wedding photography, um, it was also the same time that I got married myself. I lost my mum to cancer, and I became a mum, and all those things meant that I naturally would have probably shrunk my business anyway, because, you know, when you have children, you know, I was primary caregiver to my kids, so I didn't want to take on too many weddings, so I naturally would have kept the numbers small as well losing my mum, and I lost a year of work because she was poorly, and I needed to care for her, and I didn't know how long she was gonna be around, so I canceled a chunk of weddings because I needed to be there for my mum. And then another thing that happened in that time, 2020 I got cancer, so another kind, and it was 2020 and that was the year that that everyone's businesses shrunk as well before 2020. A good thing that happened is a picture I took of my son ended up in the National Portrait Gallery in the Taylor Wesson Portrait Prize. And this is another example of of kind of doing well, and then it almost doing the reverse mentally, because to have a picture that you've taken in the National Portrait Gallery is like, is such a huge achievement. And I felt so out of place, like my first, you know, the evening that the Taylor Weston Portrait Prize was, you know, we had all the different photographers come together and they announced the people that won. But the my first feelings when I saw the picture of my son was one of I felt embarrassed. I felt like it wasn't, shouldn't have been there. I started to look at the colors. I started to think, maybe it's not as what this I think everyone can see what I can see. It's not it's not as good as I thought it was. I'm really and I felt, yeah, that all of those horrible negative thoughts and negative feelings just overwhelmed me, and this little voice in my head was so loud, and I had to stop myself after a good, you know, 1520 minutes of this kind of almost panicky like, Oh my God, I don't belong here. I had to, kind of, I recognized what I was doing, and that was quite an eye opening point for me. And I kind of said, like, stop. This is such an achievement. You need to let yourself enjoy this moment. So I kind of talked myself down a bit. The other voice started to kind of be like, No, don't say that. Erica, she belongs here. And I kind of went, Okay, right? I'm going to own this. That is a good picture of my son. It's a great picture. And it's, it's worthy of being in this spot, because, you know, it is. But eventually the other voice went, well, it's not a wedding photo, and that's what your job is. And you've never had that kind of success for wedding photography and and it wasn't long before that voice was in control again. And, and, and, yeah, and I think that's what to have to have had these kind of great pockets of what's on the outside is success, and then just not feel it, and it do the opposite, and make me feel mentally, just the burden was just too heavy. Was horrible. And so for me, the turning point was in 2020, when, when I got cancer. That is one of those things that, you know, you would never wish it upon anyone. It's a horrible, horrible thing to go through. I was really lucky. I didn't need chemotherapy or anything like that. So mine was kidney cancer. They nipped in, removed my kidney, and then it's a case of just monitoring me and making sure I'm okay. So my my sometimes I feel like I've got imposter syndrome when it comes to cancer, because my cancer story is not as horrific as other people. So I feel but what it meant, what it meant is it made me question so much about my life, and for a period of time, I. When I didn't know how bad the cancer was, they had to, kind of, you had this big scan, and you find out. And in that little period, I kept on thinking, what, what if? And obviously, I lost my mum five years before that, so I was thinking, what if I'm not going to get a chance to be here for my children? And you start to question all the things, if you suddenly think your life is going to be cut short. And I felt really grateful, because lots of the things that were important to me, you know, like my relationship with my family and my friends and my husband, they had got massive, big ticks. I felt really comfortable when I felt like if my life was to end now, everyone who I love would know I love them. And so I felt that was a huge tick, which a big thing. The big thing that I didn't feel good with was my work, and it wasn't what I was producing. It was my feelings about my work, and that kind of understanding that I don't want, I don't want that to be how everyone knows me as Erica, the warrior that you know, all my children to think about how I ran my business. Oh, she was really anxious. She was really worried all the time. She didn't think she was any good, but she was all right, but she just didn't see it. So I kind of thought, No, I don't want that. I if I've only got a short amount of time left, I want to feel differently about my work. I want to stop I want that voice to kind of be quiet, and that, for me, that was the little gift that I got from cancer. It just made that negative voice a bit quieter, and that allowed the positive voice to start kind of going, No, you Why didn't you do this? Why didn't you do that? And I suddenly had this extra fire in my belly where I felt a little bit more motivated and and as well 2020 I'd left my other part time job at the end of 2019 so my safety, my safety net, was gone. And I felt, I think, the pandemic, the cancer, the previous job, growing, all those things combined, just Yeah, put about a fire in my stomach that I hadn't had before. And I felt excited about work. I felt, yeah, I could kind of see what I wanted it to be and what I wanted it to be in relationship to my life. So yeah, so fact that for me, that has been a huge turning point, and I think it's what I find hard, is when I recognize in other people that they have the same level of doubt about themselves and the same level of anxiety to do with their work or their business, and I recognize it as a different kind of creative doubt, because I think what I've come to learn is that US creatives, we we all doubt our work, and there's a healthy amount of questioning yourself, and there's a healthy amount of was this the best thing to do? Because that's how we grow, and we that should be part of who we are, personally, that's what I believe. But I can recognize that there's a healthy way of viewing that, and then there's an unhealthy way, and when that unhealthy way is in control of your thoughts all the time, you need to really put some things into place to change your way of thinking. And unfortunately, I would never wish cancer upon anyone. And it's a hard thing to kind of understand what the best points are to different people. So at the moment, I'm trying to have, like, a bit of a deep dive into imposter syndrome and understand it a little bit more so we can offer some kind of structure to helping people move through it and recognize when it's unhealthy or healthy doubt that they've got. So yeah, that's kind of where, where I'm at at the moment with it.
Angela Nicholson
That's really interesting. It's quite upsetting to think about somebody feeling that anxious about their work and what they do. But I think it's really interesting that what you decided was actually you didn't think about your work so much as your reaction to it and how other people would perceive you. And, you know, wanting to leave a legacy of, you know, your children thinking mum was happy. Mom loved her job is a really interesting way of spinning it, rather than saying she was a great photographer.
Erica Hawkins
Oh, absolutely. Because I think, I think what's, it's, it's so subjective, and that's that I think that's where the level of doubt will always be, you know, you can't really ever go I'm an awesome photographer and a brilliant photographer, because what's good for one person is different for someone else. Someone's gonna like my style, someone's gonna hate my style. And I think when when you take away needing that kind of validation, it's quite freeing. Because for me, I've recognized that I need to create work that I like, and I need to be proud of that work, and once I recognized that, once I could start to view work that I produced as exciting, and seeing what made me go, oh. And it was, it was work because, you know, I can look at work from my first year and I can still see that I was always there. I just had completely different feelings about it. I didn't feel because the driving seat in my mind was always that negative voice. She just didn't give me the space to appreciate what I was doing, whereas that voice is so much more quieter now that there's room for positive thinking. I mean, never. Had that before, and I think that's what, yeah, that is what I want my children to understand, is that you can have self doubt, but you also need to to be positive in what you're producing, and excited by what you're producing, whether you know, for me, that's photography and and I want them to know I love my job. I want them to I want them to be motivated by, or be inspired to think that you can have a job that you love and that job, and if I'm just showing them all the negative stuff all the time, that they're not going to, they're not going to clock that, you know, they're any small, you know, they're 10 and seven. So hopefully, now that they can kind of see that I'm very excited about my work, even though it makes me feel nervous at times.
Angela Nicholson
Well, a little bit of nerves, they say are good. I mean, most actors say that they're nervous before they go on stage, and that helps them bring out the best. And I think, you know, like you say, most creatives are probably very, very similar.
Erica Hawkins
Yeah, absolutely.
Angela Nicholson
But you didn't believe the evidence of seeing your picture on the wall at the National Portrait Gallery?
Erica Hawkins
No, not at all.
Angela Nicholson
It's something I see, you know, at SheClicks, we have a challenge every month, and 25 images are selected to go on the gallery online, and the number of messages I get saying, Oh, I can't believe you chose my picture. Thank you so much. I can't believe there's so much good work here. And then we've been very lucky. We've had an exhibition at the Fauci film house and photography, we've had exhibitions at the photography and video show at the NEC in Birmingham next year in London. And every photographer who's had a picture select is, I can't believe you selected mine, because, you know, everyone else's work is so good, and yes, and yours is just as good, you know, and it's a really hard message for people to take on board. I mean, they're absolutely overjoyed that the pictures there, yeah, has such a nice impact. But for some reason, we seem to be quite hardwired into this 'I've somehow snuck in.'
Erica Hawkins
Oh absolutely. And it it takes, it takes a long time to for that to go. And I think our industry doesn't help in many ways. I think that there's lots of like for a long time, obviously, like so for me that had a part time job alongside my photography career. You know, online that's, that's almost kind of frowned upon. You get people say, Oh, you weekend warrior. And, you know, everything gets boxed off professional, amateur, and you kind of don't really know often where you sit, and it the breeding space for doubt is so huge in our industry. I feel like that. You know, when you win a competition, it feels good. When you don't win a competition, it feels bad, and, and there's lots of things that they just very quickly can feel on top, and it can flip background and, and unfortunately, that's just part of our industry. And I think when you become aware that you're going to have this little emotional roller coaster when it comes to, you know, how the industry makes you feel, you can kind of accept it a little bit more. But when, when you make that the only thing that validates your work, then it's much harder to believe in yourself. So I totally understand why people would be what my work, because I totally get it. I felt exactly the same and but what's brilliant is that they're, they're putting themselves out there, and that they're challenging themselves, and they're, they're kind of no it's an emotional roller coaster ride that they're going to be on, but they've jumped on it. And what makes me sad is that I know a number of people whose work is amazing that wouldn't ever think to enter anything because they don't see themselves as belonging in that space. And that's what's really sad, is that is the hurdles that we put in front of ourselves in terms of allowing, not necessarily growth, but just allowing something positive to come into our world. A lot of people with really unhealthy imposter syndrome don't even give themselves that opportunity, and that's what's really, really sad. But at the same time, I understand it, because it isn't great when things don't, you know, for every picture I've won an award for, there's, there's 100 that haven't, haven't won. But like I said, I feel very differently now. I don't, I don't take my kind of the pat on the back from the industry as the only way to to feel good about my work. So I'm a bit more like, I just shrug now. I'm like, All right, well, I love that picture. So, so there, yeah. So yeah. And I never used to have that voice,
Angela Nicholson
So sticking with the theme of challenges, or, you know, maybe national competitions, like the Taylor Wessing, I think it's important to remember that it's a numbers game, and however many 1000s of pictures get entered. Maybe they have a short list of 100 or 200 or something like that. You know, a long list, and they're all fabulous pictures, but only one can win. So it's, it's really hard. You know, you're not necessarily going to be the winner.
Erica Hawkins
No, definitely.
Angela Nicholson
You know the numbers, the chances, if it was, it's the same as a lottery, almost. Yeah. Do you know it's slightly different, but so it's important to enjoy the process, and if you get shortlisted, fantastic. Celebrate that if you win. What a brilliant marketing opportunity. But it doesn't mean the other shortlisted images weren't just as good. It was just on the day that was the one the judges picked, so.
Erica Hawkins
100% and I think, understanding the subjectivity of the judges preferences as well is really important with, like, with any competitions, you know, I think so when, when that picture of Jacob kind of got shortlisted, I was like, Oh, I'm going to enter this to, you know, I started to Google other competitions that I could enter the picture, because I just thought, I'm going to gobble up every, every award that is is available for this kind of genre. I didn't win anything else. And, you know, I got shortly, you know, I kind of got far in some things, but that didn't make me at the time it did it. I kind of thought, oh, it's not as good as I thought it was. But it just goes to show that different judges will connect with different images. And sometimes, if you've got an image that you absolutely love, just keep pushing it into different competitions, and the chances are one day someone is going to connect with someone else. And I think ultimately, if you're loving the work you produce, that's that's the biggest, that's the biggest person you need to be impressing is yourself, because then you're going to be more motivated to produce more of it, because it feels, it's the like, it's the best feeling when you take a picture that you're really proud of. I love that feeling. I skip home now, and the first thing I do is like, Steve, come and look at this shot. I'm so excited by this shot. And, yeah, there might be, you know, other things in the gallery I'm not that excited by, but one good picture, it just can fill you up and, and that's what I love about photography. It's such a great feeling when you've achieved something that that you, yeah, you kind of surprise yourself by, especially in my line of work, where it's very documentary, and, you know, reportage, I don't really know what I'm going to produce until it's kind of unfolding in front of me, it's great for them.
Angela Nicholson
It strikes me that shooting documentary photography for weddings is another level of stress, because if you do the traditional photography, you know, there's got to be a series of shots that you have to take, and you've got to round up all the aunties and uncles and everybody and get them in the photo. But if you're using a documentary style, then you're kind of just looking out for stuff the whole time, and you've got to have eyes in the back of your head.
Erica Hawkins
100% and I think that's yeah, that's another part of understanding the level of doubt that comes with the job. And there's only so much you can do to safeguard your your worries and your concerns. And I think that over the years, I've come to recognize, okay, these are the things I need to do in order for me to get the best gallery I can for my clients. And one of the things for me, because I'm very documentary, is talking to my couples beforehand and explaining the process and continually, you know, throughout the build up to their wedding, reminding them I'm quite hands off. I'm not going to be directing. You know, too much of your day like so you know, if you're getting ready in a dark room, I will find the best way to shoot that dark room. A different photographer will be like, Well, no, this is dark. Let's bring you into the light. Because I want the best photos where I'm much more about I want their experience to be as authentic for them as possible, so I remind them of that and but sometimes the level of, you know, the little doubt can creep in, and I'm like, should, should I drag them over to the light? Or should? And, you know, but if I've had that conversation with them before, and they have booked me because they want someone who is more hands off, then I know I've got their permission to be creative in whichever environment is presented to me. And yeah, it might mean that it's a grainier picture, but I know they're okay with that, and then I can be true to myself that I'm capturing authentic moments. Because the minute you interrupt a scene and say, Oh, can I just pull you guys over here? Can you come and do that over here in the good light, you've changed the scene, and it's much more about the pictures rather than the moment. So for me, it's it's always the moment rather than being technically perfect. So, yeah, it's just having the confidence to own your style a little bit. And I think that's something I've got through time as well.
Angela Nicholson
Do you find that sometimes you've taken pictures that the couple didn't know you'd taken, and they, you know, they're really surprised and happy with the shots you've got because they've been so focused on their event and, you know, being together, and then they see your pictures and you've captured a special moment.
Erica Hawkins
Yeah, absolutely. My couples are always it's one of the biggest kind of the feedback I get a lot is all the moments that we didn't know happened, that that you've that you've been able to capture. So it's definitely like, I work. I always say I work my socks off on a wedding day, and it's very non stop, like, I don't tend to put my camera down unless I'm eating. So, you know, I'm always looking for those moments, and I work predominantly as a single shooter, so there's not someone else for to kind of fall back on and to to go and, you know, capture the other moments. So I'm, I'm on it constantly from the second I start till to when I finish. So yeah, I think they are quite surprised that I've, I'm able to get the breadth of imagery that I get, but for me, that's part of telling the story. You know, when I kind of think about their gallery as a whole, and the way it flows, and, you know, if you've got the same scene shot kind of in a very similar way, for it kind of just slows the story down. And I think. My, my background in film really helps the way that I tell wedding stories, because I think about the way it's going to be broken up, and the way it's going to be perceived. And, you know, I'm often thinking about, Okay, what's, what's your B roll stuff, what, what stuff is going to help tell the story, but isn't focused on the main kind of characters, and I think that's very much, what, what my galleries, what helps them shine is that there's, you know, I purposely don't really put much of the the wedding couples on my Instagram. Most of the time it's, it's all the other little things that are happening, because I want people to know this is what I like to do, is what I like to focus on. So I haven't taken your dress out and hung it in a tree and lit it perfectly because I spent another 10 minutes hanging out with the bridesmaids, and I've managed to get some natural kind of, you know, some close ups of their hands reading letters and things like that. So for me, yeah, having the time to focus on those little moments just means that my couples will get that slightly more unexpected gallery. So they're always really surprised. And yeah, I get lovely feedback from them.
Angela Nicholson
It sounds like, I know you said you still get a bit nervous, but it sounds like you really enjoy what you do. Do you find it a much more pleasurable experience when you're shooting now, compared to when you were having really bad imposter syndrome?
Erica Hawkins
Yeah, absolutely. And I think this is when, when I talk about holding myself back, this is, this is the difference that I go into a wedding now more excited that the nerves and the adrenaline that you get as a wedding photographer are there. But I don't have that, that voice going, Erica, you're gonna make a mistake. The couple don't like they don't I don't think they'll like that. Don't do that. But, you know, I've got the, you know, my positive voice is kind of saying, all this is, go do this. I think the couple will like that girl. I don't really try that. And so, yeah, I think it's, it's definitely I recognize the things that are important to me, and the huge one is the the relationship I have with my clients before the day. For me, I need, I need to know them a little bit, because I think I kind of describe it a little bit like a hug. You know, when you meet someone for the first time, I'm quite a big hugger, and I like to kind of give a hug, but I'm very aware of the other people, and I'm always like, do you like a big hug or not? And if they don't like it, then I kind of back off a little bit and I'm like, Oh no, I won't give you a big hug. And I kind of think we're doing photography is a bit like that. You kind of need to understand someone's tolerance for that big squeeze of a hug or not. So when I get couples that love a big hug. It basically is my way of knowing that they're fine with me being in their space. When I get couples that don't like that or a little bit more reserved, I understand I'm gonna have to work this couple in a slightly different way. They probably won't want me in their space as much, and I want to respect that. And you know, it's understanding the balance of getting, like, really great wedding photography, that might be more for me, but actually makes them feel uncomfortable. So, like I'm my clients always come first, and often, I might think that would have been an amazing shot, but they might be the kind of couple that I think right. They don't want me that close. They need. They need more space, and they don't appreciate me being in that moment because it feels like it will, it just won't feel right for them. So I think reading my couples, and that's a skill that, again, I hadn't quite realized how important that was for me as a photographer, to really connect with people and to empathize with how they're feeling on the day. And that's always been something that I'll do almost negatively for my imposter syndrome, because I can start questioning myself a lot, but now it's something that I have understood is a skill that I can use to my advantage. And when I know I've got someone's consent, I can take, you know, I can take pictures that I'm absolutely they're the ones that probably get me way more excited, but it's also okay to not take them, because sometimes the couple won't want that and they might want some space. And ultimately, I run a business, and then being happy with their gallery and happy with how I made them feel on the day comes above everything. So yeah, that's really important to me.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, that's a really good point. Okay, well, I think it's a really nice time to go to six from SheClicks. I've got 10 questions from SheClickers, and I would like you to answer six questions please by picking numbers from one to 10. So could I have your first number please?
Erica Hawkins
Okay, and I'm gonna go for number seven.
Angela Nicholson
Number seven, if you could have changed one thing in your career, what would it be? That's from Penny.
Erica Hawkins
Um, I think it would have been not taking myself seriously enough. I wish I'd done that sooner. I wish, I wish I'd realized that this is something that can work being a bit braver, that would definitely be, definitely be out there. It's a short, a short answer.
Angela Nicholson
That's okay. Well, sometimes the short answers are the ones that's you know, that's the most ingrained thing.
Erica Hawkins
Yeah.
Angela Nicholson
So, okay, good answer. Can I have your second number please?
Erica Hawkins
Okay, let's go for number three.
Angela Nicholson
With the documentary approach. How do you make sure that you're in the right place at the right time to get? A special shot. That question is from Liz.
Erica Hawkins
Oh, I like that one. Okay, I think with so this comes back to believing in yourself as a photographer and understanding how you're going to shoot the day. So we can have five different documentary photographers in a room, and each one of them will shoot that that scene differently. So first of all, there's no there's not necessarily a perfect spot. It just has to be the perfect spot for you as a photographer. So I think for for me, like one of the things I can think of a recent picture that I took which I absolutely love. It's a shot of a whole group of wedding guests sitting down. They're all taking a shot. And there's also a bride at the front, and she's taking a shot. So this is one of this is a good example of thinking, Okay, I knew this moment was coming. It's anticipating the moment and thinking about what's important for you as a photographer. What do you how? What do you want to tell in that story? I always kind of say, What's your why, what's your why? And in that moment that, for me, that why was like, Okay, I want to tell this story. I know what the story is. I want all the guests and the bride doing a shot at the same time. So once I knew what, what my why was it was about, or where do I need to be to tell that story? Where's the best space to be in that and for me, I knew I needed to be up high so I could get them all in the shot. So it was, you know, at that point, I was down below, and I had to quickly run back up on onto where the couple get married and stand behind them to get that shot. So I think, I think it's really important to understand what story you want to tell. So when it comes to a wedding, or family, work, or anything like that, you need to have a good understanding of what what story you wanting to tell. The minute you know what that story is, you kind of know where you need to be if you don't know what the story is, how can you tell how can you take the picture? So yeah, it's a little bit about anticipation, but also questioning yourself, kind of really thinking about what, what story do I want to tell? Often I'm thinking about framing, framing a moment, and, you know, I'll keep parts of parents slightly in the edge of the frame, because it gives the picture context. Because I'm always thinking about what is the bigger story, rather than just being very literal in terms of, like, taking a picture of what's happening in front of you, it's always about the storytelling. So yeah, long answer to that question is, understand what what story you want to tell, and then find the best spot to tell that story the way that you want to tell it.
Angela Nicholson
Obviously, you've got the overall story of the wedding, but it's those individual scenes where there's there's something to it, more than here's a portrait of the bride and groom. It's, it's a moment in that wedding.
Erica Hawkins
Yeah, be open to different stories happening. I think if you, if you just focus, this is very wedding specific, but if you're just focused on the main story, which is a couple getting married, then the gallery will just look very similar to all the other ones, but if you're open to the other stories, so yeah, so you need the time to think about it. You need the time to connect with the guests. You need to be listening all your senses really need to be kind of going off so you can have that kind of foresight into your picture.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, now if your third number please?
Erica Hawkins
Let's go for number 10.
Angela Nicholson
Number 10, what are your top tips for dealing with imposter syndrome? That question is from Sue.
Erica Hawkins
Um, okay, that's a big one. Um, so upon reflection, I've because obviously my my situation was very unique in what happened, but I think I've recognized a few things that has really helped. One of them is setting clear goals. So I think imposter syndrome can rear its ugly head when you're not measuring yourself against anything. So I never used to do that, because I didn't take myself seriously. But after 2020 I set myself goals. I kind of told myself, what do you need from your business? What you actually need in so being brave enough to set some goals, so then you can measure, and I was hitting them, I just hadn't set myself goals. I hadn't realized the things I was doing. So I couldn't, couldn't take that moment to reflect and go. Well done. You've done that, but if you set yourself goals, you can acknowledge when you've hit them without that, you're kind of aimless. So setting goals would be a big one. Having a network of photographers that you can talk to is another really great tip that I would give, because you can bounce ideas off them. You can talk to them when you're feeling a bit wobbly. It just becomes a great place to lean upon other people who are in the industry or have a similar interest to yourself. So that would be another one really kind of enjoy being part of a community, because you start to feel like you belong when when you're not part of that, and you're on the edges of it. You know, for years, I was kind of on the edges of groups, and I. Kind of watch from the sidelines and never really feel like I belonged in it again, because I just didn't feel like it wasn't a space that I felt I was allowed to step into. But give yourself the permission to join clubs, join groups, so that, yeah, that would be another one. Probably could think of lots of different things, but that they're some of the big ones. They sound really good. Another one would be give yourself permission not to enter awards as well. Like awards, it's not the only way to get validation, and if you are feeling quite if you're aware that your internal voice is a lot more negative, you might not get the best things out of entering those competitions. So be kind to yourself. If you don't want to do things, it's okay to say no to things as well. So, yeah, that would be another one.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah. Goals could be to learn a technique, or, you know, a type of editing, or to use a flash for the first time. You know, if you're a novice photographer, and there's certain things you've never done, you've never switched away from auto, maybe your challenge is to start using aperture priority or shutter priority, or something like that. Yeah, you know, it doesn't have to be earn this amount of money. It's just breaking things down a little bit so you could, like you say, you know, you said earlier about putting ticks in boxes. It's a nice positive thing to do.
Erica Hawkins
Definitely, from a professional point of view, I think sometimes we can define success as being connected to money or awards or things like that. And I think for me, when I realized how important it was to have a balance so having time with my children as well as having a career, I feel like I can say I'm successful because I'm running a business that gives me the income that I need so I can spend time with my family. It doesn't mean I'm going to be I'm not, you know, I'm not earning loads of money. I'm not going to be as financially successful as other photographers, but I'm not going to take that away from the fact that I've set myself a goal of having time with my family alongside a creative job, and to have those two things now I can really, I can be really proud of that, and say I'm doing well. So define your goals and success. And it's not always about money. It can be an achievement. It can be learning a new skill.
Angela Nicholson
Or even enjoying a new aspect, or something like that. Because some people say to me, Oh, I'm only an amateur photographer. I'm not a professional. I think, well, the differentiation actually between amateur and professional is your income stream. It says nothing about the quality of the work you produce. The main goal of being an enthusiast photographer, really is to enjoy it. And if you produce pictures that you're really happy with, then that is absolutely brilliant. So focus on the enjoyment. I think.
Erica Hawkins
Yeah, I think, again, it's one of those things that the industry, but it's sad that you even have to put yourself in one of those boxes. Can't you just be a photographer? Like, why do you have Why do you have to? Why does it have to be one or the other? If you if you like taking pictures and you enjoy you're a photographer like it doesn't really matter if you're professional or not. So that's what I think. Anyway.
Angela Nicholson
Absolutely. Okay. Can I have your fourth number, please?
Erica Hawkins
Um, let's go for nine.
Angela Nicholson
If you could ask a question of any photographer that you haven't met, but whom you admire, who would that be, and what would the question be? That's questions from Helen.
Erica Hawkins
Oh, I would probably, yeah, that's, that's a good one.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, I gonna, I'm gonna throw it open, they can be living or dead.
Erica Hawkins
Um, I would probably go for a living one. So there's a photographer I admire called Jenny Lewis. She does these great environmental portraits. I just really love her work, so I would probably love to sit down and talk to her and find out how she got into into that. Because I think I love the I love the combination of it being almost documentary but totally staged. And it's that that genre of work is something that I'm definitely interested in, and something I would like to explore. So I would, very selfishly, just talk to to Jenny and find out how she does it, and what does she do. How does she connect with her couples? And I'll just ask lots of questions like that. So yeah, Jenny Lewis, her work's amazing,
Angela Nicholson
Fantastic. Okay, can I have your penultimate number please
Erica Hawkins
Have I said number five?
Angela Nicholson
You've not said number five.
Erica Hawkins
Okay, let's go for number five,
Angela Nicholson
Right. What advice would you give to someone just before their very first wedding shoot? And that question's from Janina,
Erica Hawkins
Okay, and before their very first shoot, they've never done a wedding before, so just the very first time.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, that's right.
Erica Hawkins
What would I say to them? Well, I would probably be very, very boring logistically, things like check all the things that you can check. It would be like, make sure you've got enough batteries. Make sure you've got enough memory cards. It would be, it would be all the things that, the things that they've got control over, because I think it's there's nothing worse than kind of saying, giving advice on things that you can't really control, especially just before someone shoot, yeah, ideally, they would have had the time to connect with their couples. Ideally they would have the time to understand their style. But if, if it's your very first shoot, and you're you've not done a wedding before, I would just Yeah, logistically, make sure you've ticked off all of the things. You can control, maybe have a good, a good idea of of what kind of photography speaks to you. So you can start from day one, evolving your own style. Try not to be too influenced from the industry. Kind of, know what, know what you enjoy taking, you know the I shoot my my family, the same way I shoot weddings. And you know what I what I enjoy from a picture is evident throughout my portfolio. So I think, yeah, if you can go into your first kind of wedding job with your own sense of style, or your own inclination of what you enjoy, and you can kind of get that sense from looking at other people's work, you kind of know the work that you think is amazing. Some people look at portraits and think I love these. I love the way this person has shot this portrait. Other people will be drawn to more authentic moments. People might like the way someone edits. So I think have a steer when you're going in, otherwise you'll end up just doing what is a very safe gallery. So have, yeah, have a steer of what you'd like to do, of your own style before you go in, and then just check all the other be really important things. Make sure you've got two cameras. Make sure you've got lots of batteries. Make sure you've got lots of, you know, bottle of water and some protein bar in your bag. All the you know, things that you can control, just make sure you're on top of them.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, good advice. Thank you. So your final number, please.
Erica Hawkins
Oh, let's go for eight.
Angela Nicholson
Number eight, how has your confidence grown or changed with the development of your career? And that question is another one from Janina.
When I talk about unhealthy doubt and healthy doubt, so I think you will naturally become more confident the more weddings you shoot. So I've, you know, although I've been shooting weddings for be 13 years this year, I've still only done, you know, I think my numbers like 230 or something like that, which isn't that many in comparison to other people. However, you know, maybe without me having cancer, I might have got to a point where I felt a bit more confident, because I've come across most scenarios, and until you have come across different situations, you don't really know how you've got to capture it. So unfortunately, the more experience you have, the more confident you'll be, which isn't ideal when you're just starting out, but it does give some people hope that that negative voice might start to get quiet as their journey progresses. So yeah, it's definitely, you know, it's hard for me to know, because obviously I did have that experience. But yeah, my confidence and my work and my business is such a big they're all kind of intertwined. So So yeah, I think just the more you do you as as anything, the more you repeat something, the more you gotta get more confident at it.
Do you employ any different techniques or additional techniques now that you didn't when you first started out?
Erica Hawkins
No, I'm still very much shooting weddings the same way I used to. I feel, I just, yeah, just little things like, I feel more confident that things I'm doing are right for me. You know, for a while, sometimes people in the industry would say, oh, what? You know, I would include, like, a pre wedding shoot in my packages. Initially, I did it because I wasn't that confident doing portraits. So for me, I would see it as a way to practice portraits, as I've become much more known for my documentary. Now, I have to almost have a disclaimer that the pre wet you don't have to have a pre wedding shoot, but we have to go to the pub together. We have to meet and chat, because I need that. I need that connection with you. So it's a, yeah, I'm much more confident now about my decisions and what I'm doing, but in terms of new techniques that I'm that I've done, no, I don't think there's, there's any.
Angela Nicholson
Erica, thank you so much for answering those questions and joining me today on the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. It's been really wonderful hearing from you. And although the circumstances in which you have overcome imposter syndrome were really quite terrifying, it's great to hear how happy and positive you are about your work these days.
Erica Hawkins
Thank you. Yeah. Now I do. I feel, I feel, feel really good for it, and I just hope that anyone listening who has similar thoughts and similar feelings wherever they are in their photography journey, I hope that they can recognize the unhealthy ones versus the ones that just healthy doubt and healthy creativity and yeah, and maybe find some some things to put in place to help them change their way of thinking.
Angela Nicholson
I hope so. Okay, well, thank you very much. Bye, bye,
Thank you. Bye.
Thanks for listening to this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. Special. Thanks to everybody who sent in a question. You'll find links to Erica's website and social media channels in the show notes. I'll be back with another episode soon. So please subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it, you'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube, if you search for SheClicks net. So until next time, enjoy your photography.
