Dr Denise Maxwell: The Power of Versatility and Continued Learning in Photography
In this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast, host Angela Nicholson sits down with the remarkable Dr Denise Maxwell, a trailblazing multi-genre photographer and the creative force behind Lensi Photography. Denise’s impressive portfolio includes photographing icons like Barack Obama and Usain Bolt, covering high-profile events such as the BAFTAs and the Commonwealth Games, and excelling in fields as diverse as fashion, journalism, weddings and sports photography. Her ability to seamlessly transition between genres showcases not only her technical skills but also her adaptability and passion for storytelling through imagery.
Denise’s journey into photography began as a personal passion during her childhood, capturing candid moments of friends and family with her mum’s camera. This love for preserving memories grew over the years, but it wasn’t until she was made redundant from her NHS role that she decided to turn photography into a career. Denise shares how she initially practised by taking photo walks, experimenting with her camera and eventually pursuing a photography qualification, earning distinctions across all modules. What started as a hobby evolved into a thriving business, fuelled by her dedication to honing her craft.
Listen to another episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast
Denise’s candid reflections on her switch to professional photography are both inspiring and relatable. She recalls her early days navigating the technical aspects of photography, the excitement of securing her first corporate gig, and her growth into a confident, multi-genre photographer. Her philosophy? Embrace practice, adaptability and the power of transferable skills. Denise believes that mastering different genres sharpens a photographer’s abilities and equips them to tackle a wide range of challenges.
Throughout the podcast, Denise highlights the importance of versatility in her work. She explains how her experiences in one genre, such as capturing the fast-paced energy of sports, enhance her ability to photograph dynamic wedding scenes. This cross-genre expertise allows her to deliver exceptional results for her clients, whether she’s shooting a high-profile event, a fashion show or a personal portrait session.
Denise also emphasises the role of personal projects in keeping her creativity alive. From her celebrated redhead project, which led to a book and international recognition, to her current projects exploring themes like breastfeeding and menstruation, she underscores how personal work not only feeds her artistic soul but often leads to professional opportunities.
Denise is passionate about supporting emerging photographers and shares invaluable advice for those looking to grow their careers. Her top tip? Practice relentlessly. She encourages photographers to explore their gear, experiment with lighting and develop their technical skills to build confidence. Additionally, Denise highlights the value of setting goals and creating personal projects to stand out and attract clients.
Listeners will also hear Denise discuss her approach to work-life balance, her teaching and mentoring programmes and her thoughts on the importance of adaptability in an ever-changing industry. Her story is a testament to the power of determination, creativity and lifelong learning.
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Episode Transcript
Denise Maxwell
We do have transferable skills in photography. The fact that I can get a great group shot at a corporate event is probably because I've been used to managing weddings for a number of years. The fact that I can get a great, sharp image of a bride being swirled around the dance floor is probably because I can get a great image of, you know, gymnastics or sports or something like that. So there are a lot of skills that are transferable across the different genres.
Angela Nicholson
Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson, and I'm the founder of SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I talk with women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them and how they got to where they are now.
Today, we're joined by Dr Denise Maxwell, the powerhouse multi genre photographer behind Lensi photography. Denise has captured iconic figures like Barack Obama and Usain Bolt and covered major events such as the BAFTAs and the Commonwealth Games, making her mark in sports, fashion journalism and event photography.
Hi Denise, thank you so much for joining me today on the SheClicks women in photography podcast.
Denise Maxwell
Thank you for having me, I really appreciate it.
Angela Nicholson
Very, very welcome. Now I know that you switched to photography as a career when you were made redundant from the NHS, but what was it that first attracted you to photography in the beginning?
Denise Maxwell
Oh, so if we start about the start from the beginning, I would say that I have always been a photographer of my family and of my friends. I have pictures from my junior school and possibly even my late infants, where I'd borrow my mom's camera, oh, wow, and take my friends at school. So on the last day of leaving school, I've got pictures of us all crying and all that kind of stupid stuff that you grew when you leave junior school, because you think it's the end of your life, and you know everything's gonna be terrible. And they were taken on my mom's, I think it was called a one cold at 110 like, the film is kind of quite a long film, and then it's got like, two kind of curve bits at the end.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah.
Denise Maxwell
So I've always really liked capturing moments and being the person that has images of those moments also to explain I've got a bit of a dodgy throat, so if at any point it sounds like I'm about to cry, I'm not, my throat's really dodgy.
Angela Nicholson
Okay. Good to know, good to know.
Denise Maxwell
So, yeah, so I think I've always enjoyed capturing images. So like I said, I used to borrow my mom's camera, and then when I was old enough to have my own camera. I had a point and shoot film camera that, again, I would bring everywhere. So this was before me and any of my friends were driving. So I've got pictures of us going to carnivals on the bus, going clubbing on the bus. Pictures all of all my friends when we had children. I was the only person that had a camera, so I took pictures of the babies, and I've just got all these moments that other family and friends around me didn't have because they didn't have a camera, but I was always that person. So back then, they were, they were all a bit irritated with me. They were all a bit like, oh gosh, Denise, you've come with camera again, but we're only, you know, we're only watching the film, or Ronnie having a chill night in what have you got camera for? I'm not dressed, or I'm not and I'd literally take pictures of us just sitting around chatting and just doing the most random things. And you know how it goes when you kind of document things like that, they don't really mean much at the time, but now you go back and you look at them, and you know, we're all 20-30, years older, and it's like, wow, you know, we've got remember when you lived in that house, and remember your first flat, and I've got pictures of your first flat, and, you know, some of the children have now got children themselves, and I've got pictures, you know, of them as babies. And you know, there's all those memories. So I think, yeah, just capturing images was always something that was interesting to me for some reason. Who knows why?
Angela Nicholson
So when you were made redundant, had you sort of started to take photography more seriously before then, or did you have a sudden switch? How did that transition go?
Denise Maxwell
No, when I was made redundant, first of all, I looked for another job. At the time, I remember looking and I remember coming across loads of jobs where I was kind of thinking, that's okay, but I'm not really into that, or I wouldn't really enjoy that, or the pay was rubbish. What I did before as a job, I was on a very good salary at the time, so I was on a band six in the NHS, which was 34,000 in 20, 20, 2009, that's a very good salary. I enjoyed what I did. I did work on deconstructing race and looking at anti racism within the field of public health. So really enjoyed my job. I loved who I worked with. I had great colleagues. Had a great boss, so I had a this kind of unreal work life, where I enjoyed going into work every day and was fulfilled, and, you know, got paid well for what I did. So the idea of going to a job that I suddenly might not have enjoyed as much, and also because, because I worked on public health, I understood how important your social health was as well, not just your physical health. So everything that surrounds you, and I do know lots of people that don't enjoy the work and go to work every day, you know, angry, upset, uptight, stressed. I didn't want that. So when I was looking for jobs, obviously I'd had all of I had all of this knowledge about how social, your social health affects your physical health, as well as this kind of unreal work life. So I wanted to find something that was very similar, that where I could have the same pluses in all the same all the different areas, and I couldn't find anything like that. There were some things that, you know, maybe the salary was good, but the job wasn't so enjoyable, or some things that wouldn't feed my soul, but you know, they're located in the right place, etc. So I started to think to myself, like, what else is out there? What else can I do? And at that point, I started to think about whether or not this thing that I enjoyed doing in my personal time photography, whether or not that was really viable. I mean, obviously there were other people out there that were photographers, you know, we'll, you know, we've seen images on TV, and we see images all the time, but I didn't know. I didn't know if it was possible for myself, or how you'd go about it, etc. But what I did do, I bought a camera I originally was meant to be a nick on, but when I went into Jessops, it was Jesup. So I bought my first camera. When I went into Jessops On the day to buy my camera, they didn't have the camera I wanted at the time, so I asked them if they had anything equivalent. They showed me Canon 450 D. So that's how I became a Canon, because you kind of get pulled into the ecosystem, don't you, because then you buy the flash, and you buy this, and
Angela Nicholson
You do.
Denise Maxwell
and then it all kind of builds. So I bought my first camera, and I'd just go on photo walks at first, just go for a nice long walk, just take pictures of whatever I came across. And then I started taking pictures of family and friends. And then more people found out about it, and then at work, because we knew we were going to be made redundant. My boss, at the time, put us all on alternative courses. So someone went off and did a counseling course. He went off and did a masters. I went and did a photography course. I can't remember what else some of the others did. We all did these courses so we would have something to kind of fall back on when when our contract was finally finished. So I did this photography course, and loved it. In the time that I was there, I got distinctions in every module, so maybe I was a little bit all right at it.
Angela Nicholson
Fantastic.
Denise Maxwell
I kind of started to see that maybe this was a possibility, but I still didn't understand the financial aspect of it yet. But I started to see that there were people that were asking me to take voltage for them and that were willing to pay me, and that's kind of how it started for me.
Angela Nicholson
Did you ever do anything like sit down and write a business plan or anything like that, or did you just kind of like drift into the actual working side?
Denise Maxwell
I drifted into the working side. No, I didn't write a business plan. I did have goals that I wanted to achieve, and I've still got those in my in my workbook now. So my workbook from college has got a list of goals, like, where I want to be in five years time, in terms of kit and in terms of what I'm shooting, etc. And every now and again, I go back and look at my my kit goals, and obviously that's kind of like, you know, long, long been surpassed. Because you know how it gone photography when you just gather stuff, don't you?
Angela Nicholson
Yeah.
Denise Maxwell
So that's long been surpassed, but sometimes I look at my my list of goals in terms of where I wanted to be, and I wanted to be a full time photographer that was shooting weddings and portraits and events and earning the same amount that I earned in the NHS from my photography. So I guess in a very loose way, and a very non business like way, that was a sort of plan, because I still had something that I was aiming for, something in terms of where I wanted to be that can kind of measure against. You know, it's very measurable, isn't it? A couple of those got very measurable. So I guess a very loose non business like business plan.
Angela Nicholson
Well, there are other people who put together really strong business plans, a bit like, you know, a revision timetable at school for exams, and then don't do anything about it. So, you know, if you've got a list that at least you look at on a regular basis and try and address, then that's as good as anything, probably better, isn't it?
Denise Maxwell
Yeah.
Angela Nicholson
But do you still add to that list?
Denise Maxwell
I don't add to that particular list, but every year I still do make a list of things I want to achieve that might be people that I want to shoot events. I can say that I've worked at companies. I can say I've worked with places I want to visit because of my photography.
Speaker 1
Absolutely so it's changed, but I still do make a list of goals because I think it still gives you something to aim for. I think it's really easy to kind of get into a career just get comfortable and not grow, because you just comfortable. And I don't think I've ever been that kind of person to not want to do more. So yeah, I do still make a list of goals. They just they've just changed very much from when I first started.
Angela Nicholson
So how you doing against your 2024 list of goals?
Denise Maxwell
So my 2024 list of goals, a lot of people that I wanted to shoot, I haven't shot yet. They'll just go on and they'll just fall under 2025 I've achieved some of the goals in terms of some of my speaking goals, and also deliver courses. So some of my course goals in terms of how many people I get on a course, which courses are up and running. So I've achieved some of those goals. But as I said, but for the ones that I don't achieve, such as the people that I wanted to shoot or or companies I want to say I've worked with or at, they'll roll on to 2025 and I'll still keep kind of aiming for those.
Angela Nicholson
That sounds like a really good process. Have you have you started? Obviously, you've got the things that you haven't done for 24 that going to roll on to 25 but have you started a new list yet for 25 or do you leave that to the 31st of December?
Denise Maxwell
Oh, that happens in January, sometimes even February.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, okay, yeah. You need a bit of down time to reflect, don't you, and think forward and yeah.
Denise Maxwell
Yeah.
Angela Nicholson
Okay. I think, I think that's a really good idea.
Denise Maxwell
In January as well, I'll be away for the first part of the part of the month, so it'll just be a nice time to, kind of like, be away from home, be in the sun, just, you know, just a nice time to decompress and just to kind of have that head space, and, you know, that different, different environment, to be able to think about things a little more. So I'll probably do that in January.
Angela Nicholson
Now you said when you started out, lots of people started coming to you, you know, friends and family, and then it's usually friends and friends asking you to do some photographs. But was there a point that you switched to marketing yourself to reach beyond that sort of network?
Denise Maxwell
I wouldn't say that. I did that purposefully. I often will get people that will ask me, when I'm doing talks, etc, how they go about getting more clients. And one of the things I say to them is, first of all, you do start with your immediate environment, whoever's around you. So for me, it was my friends and family. But then what happens is that your friends and family also have contacts, and they have contacts and they have contacts, and before you know it, you do get into those completely different markets. So my very first corporate gig was from as a private project that I did a personal project. I did a personal project on redheads. I like red hair, so I did a project on redheads. It's a Portrait Project, and that ended up leading me to shoot the redhead festival in Breda, in Netherlands. They have, I don't know if you know, but they have a whole redhead festival where 8000 redheads from across the world come together to celebrate being redheads. And they have films that star redheads and songs and all kinds of things.
Angela Nicholson
Wow.
Denise Maxwell
There's just a big celebration. It's amazing. It's really something to see. You kind of get to the town and literally, everybody's got red hair, fantastic. So as part of that, I ended up getting quite a lot of press coverage over it. Got some BBC coverage over etc on. I did various shoots for that, and I think maybe one of my third shoots, one of the people that posed for portraits for me worked at Birmingham University. I didn't know at the time, because how I went about finding the people for the project was literally, I'd see somebody in the street. I had a letter. I gave them a letter that explained what the project was, what I'd want from them if they want to be part of it, etc, and when the shoot dates were. And one of the people that responded, as I said, worked for Birmingham University. I didn't know at the time, but she was quite senior in Birmingham University, and after I did her portraits, she asked me if I'd be willing to do some images on their prospectus. And that was my first corporate gig. So it came from a personal project. But obviously, you know, it's in terms of, you don't know who works where, who knows who, etc, and that's how it kind of grows. So whenever people ask me about how they get gigs, or how they get into corporate or how they get their first gigs, I always say, start with the people around you, and it will grow and grow and grow because they will have connections. And by the time those connections are a two and three fold, then you're already into the corporate world. So that's how I got my very first corporate booking. It wasn't a purposeful marketing.
Angela Nicholson
How did you feel about that first booking? Were you nervous or were just excited?
Denise Maxwell
Oh, absolutely nervous. I mean, it's funny when I look back now, because the amount of gear I bought with me, but like it, I mean, it was prospectus, and we just saw it was a case of, like, students that are already working and, you know, events that are already happening around the uni and some of the buildings and stuff. I just remember bringing a shed load of gear. And I look back at that now and just laugh, because that would now be my cameras and my speed lights, but I remember bringing tripods and just all kinds of stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Yeah, because at that point I was still, I was still learning. I didn't know exactly what lighting I would need or exactly what would be produced from the different lighting. So I was still learning, still winning, winging it a little bit. But yeah, I was very, very nervous about that first event,
Angela Nicholson
But you were prepared for everything.
Denise Maxwell
Oh, yeah.
Angela Nicholson
Landscapes, still life,
Denise Maxwell
yeah.
Angela Nicholson
Macro, the lot, brilliant.
Now you're a multi genre photographer, so you shoot a wide variety of subjects, you've got a wide variety of clients. How do you juggle them all?
Speaker 1
Um, I don't think it's any different from a wedding photographer that might have so for example, one of my colleagues is a wedding photographer, and he does 180 weddings a year. Whoa, that's a lot. Exactly, it is a lot. It was a lot the two of them, and they have two editors, but under an 80 weddings a year, and I think about that in comparison to me shooting multiple genres, and it does what I do, feels like a doddle in comparison, whatever you fill your diary with is just what you fill your diary with. So when you have no more space, you just have no more space. So I don't think it's any different from somebody that covers one genre, because they do their I don't know if they do three days a week, four days a week, they're four days a week shooting one thing, whereas my four days a week might be sports on one day, portrait portraits on another day, and event on an event on another day. So I don't see as actually any different. It's just the fact that I shoot different things instead of the same thing every day.
Angela Nicholson
But I suppose I was thinking, if you are a wedding photographer, example, you're usually booked for half a day or a day. So you do that whole thing, but if you're shooting portraits, then it may only be an hour or two. So, you know, do you sometimes think, Oh, well, can I squeeze this around that? And, you know, just trying to make sure your day is full? Or are you more relaxed about it?
Denise Maxwell
Oh, no, no, I'm more relaxed about it. I think that one of the one of the cross points for being self employed and running, running my own business, and that it's photography, is that I can have this great work life balance. I don't aim for my days to be 10 hour days to be full from start to finish. I do like the flexibility, but I want to go and see my niece and nephews play, or see them at Sports Day, or whatever it is. I like the flexibility of being able to do that in the job that I worked before, even though I was working a 40 hour week, we still had the flexibility where if I needed to bring my car in for an MOT, then I could bring it in the bus. Was quite relaxed about that. So again, I feel that that's really important in your work life. I think it's really important to have that flexibility and to have that time where you can be with your family and you can have headspace to do other things and to relax, etc. I think that for me, I think that so many people are in jobs where not only do they have to be fully, you know, full throttle from nine to five, but then these also from six to nine, they're still answering emails. And I just don't think that that's healthy. So I do structure my week where most weeks I don't have I don't work five days a week, most of my weeks, I kind of work, maybe three days. Occasionally, I might have bookings on five days, but that that's a kind of, kind of rarity. I like the fact that most of my bookings, I think, on average, most of my bookings, are about three hours. So if I have an event, three hours is generally how long most of my events are. And that works fine for me, there are the days that are longer. Like I said, I don't try and feel it. I think that is a is a healthy way to live and to work. So, yeah, I'll quite enjoy that.
Angela Nicholson
Did you make a conscious decision to be a multi genre photographer, or is that how your mindset is and how your business developed?
Denise Maxwell
Um, I think it's a combination of both. I think that, I think that before I even think about business, I know that I've always been in jobs that have been very, very varied. So I'm doing completely different things on different days. And I kind of think that's probably how my mind works, that I like being able to do different things. It keeps me excited still. It keeps me not bored. I think somebody recently pointed out that my website and my Instagram looks very much like that same kind of way of thinking, where I like to show all these different things at one time. So I think somehow it all links into how my brain works and how I operate. And I think I ended up getting different opportunities in different genres that were still dream opportunities. So for example, my the first time I shot athletics the Diamond League, it was, I remember that we've always been into athletics in our house. So I remember Carl Lewis days, Linford Christie days.
Sally Gunnell of those, you know, all of those greats. I remember them running. I remember us all still in the living room watching, watching them run when I first got to shoot my first diamond league athletics. Do I turn that such a great opportunity down because I'm a portrait photographer or wedding photographer, absolutely not like the I'm getting to be in a stadium with people that I used to watch, or the people that have come after them, I'm getting to, you know, see things that I used to watch on TV, and, know, I was standing in those very stadiums. So I ended up getting opportunities that were just too good to turn down. So obviously I was going to take those up. But then also, I enjoyed all those genres. I think another thing that it does as well is that it makes me a more all rounded photographer, if that makes sense. So there aren't many things now that would faze me, you know, somebody bought me for a fashion show, for a sports gig, for a campaign for for whatever it is. There aren't many things that could faze me. And there aren't many lenses that are that, that I wouldn't have to cover a particular type of job as well.
Angela Nicholson
I guess it helps keep you fresh as well, because you're constantly learning, well, you know, you learn something at one place, and you can introduce something different to another.
Denise Maxwell
Absolutely, absolutely. I think one of the things, again, I speak to emerging photographers about is transferable skills. We talk about in the corporate world all the time. So, you know, we fill it in on our CVs, where we talk about, oh, I've got transferable skills from this job, because I was a speaker at this job, and I can transfer them into such and such a job. So we talk about it in the corporate world all the time, but we don't talk about in creative world as much. And that's one of the things that I'm kind of a big, a big fan of talking about the fact that, and not just talking about the fact, but understanding the fact that we do have transferable skills in photography. The fact that I can get a great group shot at a corporate event is probably because I've been used to managing weddings for a number of years. The fact that I can get a great, sharp image of a bride being swirled around the dance floor is probably because I can get a great image of, you know, gymnastics or sports or something like that. So there are a lot of skills that are transferable across the different genres, and I think being a multi genre photographer helps me to be able to access those different skills for different jobs and just be, like I said, and more all rounded photographer.
Angela Nicholson
It sounds to me like in the way you talk about photography and the things you do that, you still get a lot of joy from it, because I know quite a few photographers who are professional, and it's very much a kind of that's their day job, and then they do something else. But it sounds, you know, you were talking about watching your nephews and nieces at Sports Day. And I was thinking, There's no way you just watch them. You're there with the camera, aren't you?
Denise Maxwell
Yeah, yeah.
Angela Nicholson
I thought, so
Denise Maxwell
Everyone walks in with these phones, and then their auty walks with a 70-200.
And embarrasses them.
But you know, just another generation of people that were, will be embarrassed by me now, and in 20 years to come, they'll be thankful that I did that. Yeah, yes, I do still get a lot of joy from from photography. I think again, that's one of the things that shooting multiple genres does, because you don't get bored of the same this again and that pose again and that venue again. I've got a friend who's been, he's been an Asian wedding photographer for maybe, maybe 20 plus years now, and he always says to me, I'm sick of seeing loved up Asian couples. Have you been on one of your jobs? I I'm just doing something.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, dear.
Denise Maxwell
And he's like, Oh, your work is so exciting. And it has been on a couple fashion shoots with me to London Fashion Week, etc. But I think again, shooting multiple genres just keeps it fresh, because I'm always excited over the next shoot. I'm excited that, you know, next week, I've got a premiere, and I might finally get to shoot Denzel Washington, who was on one of who's on one of my, my to shoot lists, etc. Oh, wow. And then, you know, might be I'm at Fashion Week. I remember one of the years I was at Fashion Week, and I bumped into Nana cherry. And when I was young guys, we used to dress like her. So she was like a post rubber war and everything, and suddenly name a cherry stood in front of me. So, um, there's lots of things in in shooting multiple genres for me that is still exciting. So yes, I still love my job. Yes, I'm still excited by different shoots. Not bored yet.
Angela Nicholson
Good.
Denise Maxwell
I'm just very, very blessed.
Angela Nicholson
Good to know. So what point in your career did you start teaching and mentoring photographers?
Denise Maxwell
Um, trying to think when I did, when the first session was I did. I mean, before photography, I've always, I've always delivered training. So. So my my very first job after leaving uni, I worked in the field of domestic domestic violence. And after working there for about three or four years, I went into delivering training in schools and with adults. So I've always had an aspect of training in a lot of different jobs that jobs that I've done. So in the domestic violence field, I also did some work with young moms. And again, training was an aspect of that, and then when I did anti-racism work, training was a major part of that as well. So I think I've always enjoyed giving knowledge, challenging, helping people to learn. I've always enjoyed that also when I was made redundant, as well as getting my photography qualification, also I got a petals qualification as well, which is a an official training qualification. I did consider getting a teaching qualification, but the rates of pay in the work is just absolutely terrible, so I never went down that route.
Speaker 1
It just felt natural that with photography, that after a certain point that teaching or workshops or imparting knowledge, education, whatever you want to call it, was part of that. I think probably my first gig was my previous college that I attended. They asked me to come back and speak to their current student, just as as an alumni who is who is now a photographer, and a little bit about my journey, etc. So I think that was my very first teaching gig in photography, and then it kind of grew from there. So there were other lecturers that were at that college at that time that had moved to other colleges. They asked me to speak at theirs. And then, just the same as as it goes with getting bookings and commissions, you know, one person hears you speak. They work somewhere. They're linked to somewhere. They then contact you to speak at somewhere else that it just kind of grew from there.
Angela Nicholson
What advice would you give to aspiring photographers? So the one particular gem that you'd like to pass on.
Denise Maxwell
One particular gem that I'd like to pass on. And it's going to sound very, very simple, I often get asked the question, probably most months I'll get asked the question multiple times, what's the one thing I should do in order to move on, in order to get further in photography? And the one piece of advice I give that sounds very, very simplistic, is simply practice. The reason I say practice is that you don't want to be in the position that when you get an opportunity. So when you get invited to shoot the Diamond League, or get invited to, you know, a gig to shoot London Fashion Week, you don't want to be in the position where you do that gig and then you fell miserably because you haven't been prepared, because you haven't practiced. And I say to all emerging photographers, practice to the point where you know your camera inside out, where you know your camera with your eyes closed, where you know exactly what lighting is going to be brought, what lighting you're going to get from, from what type of flashes. I remember doing lots of practice sessions with I've got a sheet in my in my college booklet, where I was practicing with my speed light for the first time. And I've literally, I literally sat myself on a on a stall, had a remote, took a picture with my flash. They would move it, you know, when you know, you move your flash up to all different points around. And then I'd shoot it forwards and all points, and then I bounce it backwards, and I take a picture on each one. These are all printed out in my college booklet. So it's like left to left, one click, right one click. And all of this was me starting to understand how a speed light work, how bounce flash works. Yeah, it was really tedious. It was really long, but yet I had this, you know, this three page spread just showing exactly where the light fell on my face, which helped me to understand speed light. So there's lots of things that that I practiced on so that when I did get those opportunities, I was able to do them well enough to still get more commissions from that. And that's how my business grew. Now I can't say that if you know the first time I shot again, the Diamond League, for example, if I completely messed that up, if my agency would let me shoot that again, or if I get another commission to shoot that. So practice is the biggest thing for me, for growing your business, so that you know you can deliver when the opportunity comes. And also, the other thing about practice as well is that for most of us, we will start with a very basic website. My first website was populated from all my projects at university. So we had a documentary project, and we had a press project and we had a portrait project, and that was my first, my very first website. But also I wanted to make that website fuller. So all of my practice that I did, so my my photography walks, and when I'd go on holiday, and my friends and family, and all of those things became, became part of my, my first initial website. So again, when a client was looking, you know, when a client's looking me?
When somebody contacts me to commission me for a shoot, I'm able to show them this website of all these, this plethora of great images that shows that I can complete this work, and can show that, you know, that I can work with people, I can work with groups, and all of these kinds of things. So again, it gave them the confidence in order to commission me early on, before I had all of those commissions. So practice works in a lot of different ways. And also, I think it's one of those things that, even though I advise that to emerging photographers, I still show people now how I still do the same thing today. So I still practice now. So before, if I I'm a very big sneaker head I've got, I can't even tell you how many pairs of trainers I've got. I really wouldn't even know. I'd probably say at least, at least 60 pairs, maybe something like that.
Angela Nicholson
Wow. Crikey.
Denise Maxwell
And before I wear a new pair of trainers, I practice with them. So they become some kind of trainer shoot, some kind of sneaker shoot, right? I'll do that with a lot of new things I have. So I'll practice the light, and I'll practise, you know, different methods of of suspending them so it looks like they're, you know, suspended in air, etc. So I do that with trainers. I do that with food. I do that with that with lots of new stuff that I get. So that process of still learning, of still practicing, of still pushing myself and still shooting different things is still there. So yeah, practice is the biggest thing that I would give to new photographers. There should never be a point where where your camera has been in your bed for months and not taking pictures, if that just shouldn't happen, because practice is all around your practices, your partner sitting on the sofa next to you, and you're getting some documentary images. Practices everywhere. So that should never happen. And that's my biggest tip to all photographers.
Angela Nicholson
I think that's really good advice.
Denise Maxwell
Thank you.
Angela Nicholson
I think particularly in the age of YouTube, you know, it's a fantastic opportunity for learning, but it's very easy just to sit there and kind of soak it up, yeah, and then you pick up your camera and you kind of like, just freeze because you can't remember anything that they said or you haven't actually translated it, and you need to develop that muscle memory.
Denise Maxwell
Yeah.
Angela Nicholson
Doing it yourself, don't you?
Denise Maxwell
I think, also, I think that's one of the one of my criticisms of some courses, in terms of so much theory and so little practice, because it's a practice that's going to get you commissions. It's a practice that's going to help you get on the road of being a full time photographer, not the theory of knowing who created the first photo, how the first photo was created. You know which art galleries are delivering which type of work. That's not what most photographers get their commissions in. So it's going to be the practice that helps you to become that full time photographer.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, well, I think that is a really good time to go to six from SheClicks. So I've got 10 questions from some SheClickers, and I'd like you to answer six questions by picking numbers from one to 10. Now it's interesting this one, because quite a few people asked similar questions, so there's quite a few that are several or a couple of names. But so can you pick your first number, please?
Denise Maxwell
Number two.
Angela Nicholson
Is there a genre of photography that you enjoy more than others? And if you could only shoot one genre, would it be that one? Several people ask that?
Denise Maxwell
Oo, okay, um, No, there isn't one genre I enjoy more than others. I enjoy lots of different things from lots of genres. So for example, if I'm shooting sports, I love 100 meters. I love that part of sport. I also love gymnastic whether using ribbons and hula hoops and all those things. I love rhythmatic gymnastics to shoot. It's absolutely amazing. It's there's just so much to shoot. I love in weddings. I love couple portraits. I love the moments in the morning with the bride and her best friends. In in business portraits, I'll have a lot of people that will come to me for business portraits as an example that will say all of their work images before. They've hated they've hated their LinkedIn picture. They've hated, you know, what the photographer has produced before? And suddenly I produced a range of images for them where they're like, oh my gosh, that's me. That picture is going everywhere I'm sending that. But every time I speak, etc. So I don't have one genre I enjoy more than others. I enjoy lots of different things about lots of genres, and I don't know if I would be able to just shoot one thing. So sorry to the person that asked that question because I've kind of not answered it. So sorry.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. Okay, so, can I have your second number please?
Denise Maxwell
Number five.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, this is a good observation. Although you're a multi genre photographer, you have a focus on people. Do you find it easy to engage with people? And do you have any tips for anyone looking to improve in that area. And a few people ask that,
Denise Maxwell
Oh, do I have a focus on people? I wouldn't have recognized that myself. So it's interesting when other people give you observations that you haven't necessarily observed yourself.
Angela Nicholson
I think, like sports, athletics, you're photographing people, weddings, people, portraits, so.
Denise Maxwell
Yeah, I guess so, like I said, I wouldn't have necessarily said that, but I can see, I can see how that definitely comes across. I think I do find it easy to interact with people. I think again, transferable skills. It's always been part of my career. So I've always had careers where I've worked with people. I'm also a qualified youth and community worker. So that's always been part of how I operate, what I do. But again, for those people that that doesn't come so naturally. I think what I always advise photographers who because I have had similar questions before, what I advise those photographers is don't push yourself to have to work in a genre where you don't feel comfortable. Photography is so wide and so vast. There are so many different things and genres you can shoot. I have a colleague that only shoots still life. So he mostly does clothes and shoes, and he's had a 30 year career shooting clothes and shoes. He shoots for Mother Care. He shoots for Boden, he shoots for a lot of the big brands, and he doesn't interact with people. It's just clothes and shoes. So, you know, you don't if that's something that doesn't suit you, talking to people and interacting with people. Don't feel as though you have to push yourself to do that. I think there's this huge misconception, especially amongst some emerging photographers that you have to make your living in weddings and portraits and events. There are lots of other genres you can make a living in as well. I also have a couple friends that are very successful landscape photographers. So they'll be getting up at two o'clock in the morning to walk up a mountain to get you know this sun rising over over a particular cliff and literally not speak to another person, but get this amazing image that they then sell, and they have galleries, etc. I'm trying to think of some of my other colleagues that don't do any any work that interacts with people, some of my even some of my press colleagues, although press, as in red carpet, seems as though it's working with people. Basically, you don't speak to the celebrities. Often you don't interact with them. Literally, that it's a step and repeat. They come smile at everybody. The next person comes smiles at everybody. You take your shot. So there are lots of genres in photography where you don't have to interact with people. If that's not something you're comfortable with, then you don't need to push it. There's lots of other things you can shoot. And, yeah, that's what I would say.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, fair enough. Can I have your third number please?
Denise Maxwell
Number six.
Angela Nicholson
Do you use the same kit for all the genres you shoot? Or are there some lenses you only use for certain genres for example?
Denise Maxwell
Yes. So I only really ever get out my macro lens for weddings, because I only really use it on rings and small details like that. So I don't bring my macro lens to many other jobs. Sorry, sometimes I'll bring it to food gigs, actually, if I'm shooting food, yeah, food and weddings, probably for my Macro, I only bring out my very big telephoto lenses for festivals and for sports. My general go to kit that will come to every single job with me will be my 70 to 200, my 24-105, I prefer that to my 24-70 because my particular one feels sharper. I don't know if it's something about the lens or on about that particular lens. You know, different lenses can sometimes be a bit faulty. So yeah, my 24-105, and then my 35 in case that there's low light in whatever environment I'm in, and my two speed lights. And that is the kit that goes everywhere with me, no matter what I've got, no matter what type of job I have. And then there'll be others in addition to that, depending on what else I'm shooting. So yes, not every lens goes to every job, but there is that kind of core kit that is always in my bag that will come everywhere.
Angela Nicholson
Do you ever take a tripod with you sometimes?
Denise Maxwell
Yes, so, so if I'm doing loads of group shots for it, sorry, loads of single shots, for example, might be doing loads of portraits. I want them all to have the same framing. I might take a tripod with me. Then, if I'm doing some type of street photography where I want to get passes by blurred and one person focused, I might use a filter on the front of my camera to darken everything down and just getting the blur from everybody on one person, one person focus. So yeah, there were different environments where I will where I will definitely bring the tripod as well.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, can I have your fourth number please?
Denise Maxwell
Number nine.
Angela Nicholson
Are you planning to introduce more courses or expand your mentoring program? Several people ask that.
Denise Maxwell
Oh, absolutely, absolutely, I'm working on that now. So one of the things I do at the moment, so I deliver a course on teaching photographers how to earn five to 10k per month from the photography, and I base that on what I earn and how I've gone about it. So that's my course, my main course I deliver at the moment. I also do do one to one sessions. So I do one to one sessions on lighting, or whatever it is that that particular photographer wants to learn. It's a kind of tailored, tailored one to one sessions. But I am definitely thinking of expanding those. I'm I'm actually working at the moment on having off the shelf courses that people can access at any time, rather than at the moment. I deliver my course once a year, but I'm actually working on it being an off the shelf course that people can can purchase at any time. So definitely that in terms of my mentoring, I do two different types of mentoring. So the type where somebody would book me to, as I said, deliver a lighting course to them and show them how to use, how to use speed lights. That might be, you know, something specific to them. I also deliver a mentoring program, mentoring or shadowing, where people can shadow me on real commissions. So that's me bringing someone to Fashion Week, me bringing someone on a film premiere, me bringing somebody on a corporate gig, for example, and that's sponsored by MPB, again, that will depend on what sponsorship what happens to sponsorship in the future, something I'd love to expand, because I do think that. I think it's actually harder for photographers to enter the field now than it was when I started. I think I was very blessed and very fortunate at the time that I started that, you know, there were more press agencies around that you could join very easily. There were, I think that, especially post COVID, I think a lot of things have kind of locked down a lot more. So it's, it's harder to get into sports. It's harder to get into London Fashion Week. It's harder to get into some of these, some of these arenas. So if I can be one of those people that help emerging photographers to be able to get into some of these fields and get into some of these events, which means they then have that in their portfolio, which means they then understand that, so that again, when they do get a commission or a chance, they can say, yes, I've shot this. I understand this. If I can be one of those people. I think it's a I think it's a very worthy legacy to be able to leave to say you've helped X, Y, Z, person to, you know, get on their way to to wherever, you know, wherever they they're planning to be. So, yeah, I'd love to be able to expand it, but we'll see what funding says in the future.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, well, I think that's a really nice attitude, but it does help you sleep at night a bit better, doesn't it? When you've, you've helped somebody with something like that?
Denise Maxwell
Absolutely, absolutely. My husband was at an event a few months ago, and he said this guy came up to her and said, 'Your missus helped me get into photography'. He described this guy to me, I haven't got a clue who this guy was.
Speaker 1
He was telling them all about how I gave him this advice. And I was like, Okay, well, thank you, but I don't know who you are.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, well, that's nice that you mentioned it, though. So can I have your fifth number, please?
Denise Maxwell
10.
Angela Nicholson
If you could give your younger self some advice, what would it be? That question is from Liz, bearing in mind all the things that you've learned, what you've done over the years.
Denise Maxwell
Oh, I don't, I really don't know, because at first, at first, what I thought started to think about, would I have started earlier? Because it's a great it's a great profession to be in, but then I loved what I did before, so maybe I wouldn't have started earlier, then maybe I wouldn't have had that experience to be able to do some of the things that I do now. So I don't know if I'd advise that, would I suppose myself to have not gone about it the way that I did, no, because that's led me to where I am now, which is a very comfortable place. So I don't know if I'd do anything different, because I'm happy where I am, and I'm content where I am, and I'm loving where I am, so I don't know if I'd advise myself to do anything different, just to, just to do the same as what I've done.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, that's really interesting, because you actually managed to answer two questions in one there, because number eight was about if you would rather have started photography earlier, or do you feel that you've benefited from having some work before that, and you know, that extra experience that you've got? So you answered that question as well. So thank you for that.
Denise Maxwell
Thank you.
Angela Nicholson
So can I have your final number then, please?
Denise Maxwell
Number three, I don't think I've said three.
Angela Nicholson
Do you work on any personal photography projects? Marie-Ange asked that.
Denise Maxwell
Okay, yes, Marie-Ange, I think that every photographer, no matter how early or far you are into your career, should do this. I think your personal projects is where you can if, for example, you do get to the stage where you see your photographer is just a day job. Your personal projects is where you can keep your passion. It's where you can do something that you really enjoy without any time constraints, without any budget constraints, without any styling constraints, you can do exactly what you want. And what often happens with personal projects is they then convert to real commissions, because it catches somebody's eye. Whatever you've decided to do personally catches somebody's eye. I'll give you a couple of examples of this.
So, my redhead project, for example, that was something I decided to do. From that, I wrote a book that is still on sale now. All my the colleges that I worked at purchased that book. I went to Breda. From that, I did a range of interviews on the BBC. From that personal project. From that as well, the BBC, for about two years, would contact me to speak on redhead issues, where I'd get paid to speak on the radio as a redhead expert, because of all these people that I'd interviewed.
Angela Nicholson
Wow.
Denise Maxwell
So here's me as a redhead expert. Literally all from a personal project. So that's one example. Personal projects really do transfer into real commissions, into real jobs. Another one, one of my colleagues recently, he did a his name's Darren Watley, and look him up on Instagram. He did a black history month project. Again, it's a personal project of his, thus photographing prominent black people in his community. From that he got a two day exhibition. From that two day exhibition, someone else saw, saw that exhibit, saw that exhibition, and then offered him a month long exhibition. The Royal Society of photographers has then got involved and also given him some funding to extend that exhibition. He's then also got some funding from the Arts Council to finish off that piece of work. So all of this has come from him starting a personal project. Also, what I forgot to mention, he was featured in the voice he's featured on the BBC, and he recently took part in a panel at the University of Wolverhampton, all from a personal project. So another example is a personal project from Aneesa Dawoojee. Think it's called the Fighting Spirit of South London, where she's done a range of portraits of, I think it's Thai fighters in her local gym. And again, that has been exhibited at the photography show, where she spoke about it. It's been exhibited by, I think, the Royal Society of Photographers. Has been exhibited in multiple places. She's had multiple radio interviews. She's had multiple press coverage over this and again, this was from a personal project. I've got lots of examples I could literally go on all day. But personal projects are so important for for your growth as a photographer, for your for for your creativity as a photographer, and for bringing in new clients, because that's where you get to do exactly what you want to do. And that will speak to the clients that are looking for something like that. They may not be looking for the corporate gig that you've just shot, or the commission that you've just shot. They may be looking for exactly what is it that comes out of your mind, out of your creativity. So yes, I do do personal projects. I still do them. Do them today, I've been working on couple of I've been working I've been working on a breastfeeding project, been working on that for a while. I've been working on a project around menstruation. Been working on that for a while. So I've always got personal projects in the background. Always got them go in and yeah, it's really important to do them. So for anyone watching, yes, please do do them.
Angela Nicholson
Okay. Well, I think that's a brilliant point to finish. Thank you so much for joining me on the SheClicks women in photography podcast.
Denise Maxwell
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Angela Nicholson
Thanks for listening to this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography podcast, I hope you enjoyed it. Special thanks to everybody who sent in a question. You'll find links to Denise's website and social media channels in the show notes.
I'll be back with another episode soon, so please subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube, if you search for SheClicks net, so until next time, enjoy your photography.
