Kate Kirkman: Building Confidence and Evolving a Photography Business
Welcome to another inspiring episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast, hosted by Angela Nicholson, founder of SheClicks - a supportive and vibrant community for female photographers of all experience levels. In this episode, Angela reconnects with the multi-talented Kate Kirkman, a Sony Imaging Ambassador celebrated for her stunning wedding photography, empowering boudoir sessions as well as her food photography, commercial projects and videography.
Kate has navigated some significant changes since her first appearance on the podcast in 2023, including a bold relocation to Cornwall, a move driven by a desire for a better work-life balance. In this candid conversation, Kate shares insights on managing a thriving photography and videography business, balancing family life, and staying creatively inspired.
Listen to another episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast
A Journey of Growth and Reinvention
Kate opens up about the challenges and triumphs of relocating a business, particularly one so reliant on relationships with clients and venues. Despite initial concerns about maintaining her existing client base in central England, her careful planning and her husband (and business partner) Brent's willingness to travel have ensured a smooth transition. Now, Kate is setting her sights on building connections with local venues in Cornwall while continuing to serve clients from further afield.
A key takeaway from this episode is Kate’s emphasis on community and adaptability. She describes how networking with small local businesses has fostered rewarding collaborations, while Brent’s upcoming role at Falmouth University aims to bridge the gap between local enterprises and emerging creative talent.
Staying Relevant in a Competitive Industry
Kate discusses her journey from being an ambient light photographer to mastering flash photography, a shift that transformed her confidence and elevated her work. Kate’s advice? Face technical challenges head-on, and the confidence you gain will unlock new creative possibilities.
Kate also reflects on how her business has evolved to include videography, a transition prompted by client demand and spearheaded by Brent’s enthusiasm for moving images. Together, they now describe themselves as "hybrid photographers", seamlessly blending still photography with videography to tell compelling stories.
Giving Back and Building Balance
From training new talent to fostering community ties, Kate is passionate about giving back. She and Brent are working with Falmouth University to create opportunities for students to gain real-world experience while helping local businesses improve their visual content. This initiative aligns perfectly with their values of sustainability, collaboration, and supporting the next generation of creatives.
On a personal level, relocating to Cornwall has enabled Kate to find a much-needed balance between her professional and personal life. The proximity to the beach and the strong sense of community have provided a rejuvenating backdrop to her busy career.
Key Lessons for Photographers
Throughout the episode, Kate offers valuable advice for photographers at all stages of their journey. From managing imposter syndrome and navigating self-promotion to balancing technical mastery with emotional storytelling, her insights are both practical and inspiring. One standout piece of wisdom: focus on building strong technical foundations to free yourself for creative expression.
Connect with Kate
Kate Hopewell-Smith Photography
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Sony
This podcast is supported by Sony, maker of class-leading camera equipment and cutting-edge technologies – like the Global Shutter in the Alpha 9 III which won the SheClicks 2024 Award for Innovation.
Episode Transcript
Kate Kirkman
I realised very early on that my confidence was entirely related to my technical skills, and that once I actually faced it, solved it and learned then my confidence levels grew kind of exponentially, really, and I went into shoots confident.
Angela Nicholson
Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson, and I'm the founder of SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I talk with women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them, and how they got to where they are now.
Angela Nicholson
In this episode, Sony imaging Ambassador Kate Kirkman returns to our podcast studio. Although best known for her wedding work, Kate is a multi talented photographer who also shoots portraits, boudoir and food in more recent times, Kate has also turned her hand to videography.
Angela Nicholson
Hi Kate. Welcome back to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. It's great to see you again.
Kate Kirkman
Hi, Ange, it's lovely to be here.
Angela Nicholson
Thank you. Now, your first podcast went out in October 2023 and quite a lot of stuff's been going on with you since then. So do you want to update us on what's been happening?
Kate Kirkman
Yeah. I mean, we had a we've had a fairly major relocation,which is still surprising a lot of people, but we made the decision during the pandemic to move to Cornwall that had to wait for a couple of years in terms of kids education and everything. So we finally made the move in September 23and are now in our own home. And yeah, so it's, it's actually almost been bigger than I thought it would be.
Angela Nicholson
What the move or the house?
Kate Kirkman
Oh, no, definitely not the house. No, the move, I think just the impact of, you know, 35 hours or four and a half hours, but, yeah, affects everything, your personal life, your work life, no regrets. Absolutely love it, but yeah, it just feels like it was quite a lot.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah. And are you still working with all the same venues that you worked with before? Because some of them were local to where you used to live?
Kate Kirkman
Yes. And in fact, that was kind of absolutely necessary, I guess, in terms of having a safety net, because obviously when you move a photography business, you worry. So we knew we had a full, a full wedding schedule for 2024, but you're right, that was still largely up in central England, London and the kind of home counties. So luckily, Brent doesn't mind driving, because we've been doing an awful lot of it, but it's fine. I've we're actually, you actually shoot less than everything else you know, for a wedding business.
Angela Nicholson
Okay?
Kate Kirkman
So the amount of time you're actually out shooting is not as much as people might think. So we're on the road a lot. Oh, got you, yeah, yeah, yeah. So actually, it is doable. It's absolutely doable. But I think this, actually my focus for 25 is to build the business down here. And you might ask, why on earth weren't you doing that last year? And honestly, it's because we were just so busy that I didn't. And also, we've got a lot of weddings still in 2025 up north. But yeah, that is definitely something I need to get cracking on. Is to try and find some more local venues. Yeah, but you've done destination weddings as well, haven't you in the past? Are you still doing those even more traveling? No, I think we it's an interesting one. I think we're less, less drawn to the supposed glamor of a of a destination wedding. And yeah, we've shot some amazing ones, but I'm less I understand now that you really don't get to see the destination very much. We can't because we've still got commitments back home. So you might get a day either side, but it's not always worth the hassle. So no, we're just, we're definitely at the stage in our businesses where we just want kind of good, safe weddings that we can rely on.
Angela Nicholson
And are you still doing all the range of genres, because you don't just do weddings, do you?
Kate Kirkman
No, not at all. Interestingly, I think financially, the most, the one that's kept going the most has obviously been weddings and my boudoir business. I actually changed it so that it wasn't just under Kate Hopewell-Smith. I launched the Muse brand and brought on two other women, and I trained them up. And one shoots where in the area I used to shoot, and I've got Gemma in Salisbury, and that's Uber busy. And so they have kept Muse going very much, and the house here is now ready. And yeah, I'm taking bookings, and people are actually flying down from London to Newquay. So again, I haven't even started promoting locally. I'm still getting business from from London. So yeah, the the boudoir world business is still kind of booming, and we have put quite a lot of focus. Actually locally into the more commercial side of things, so food and portraiture and that, that that's what we're really focusing on down here.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, so people are coming down to you for that or are you shooting with local companies, businesses?
Kate Kirkman
So local businesses, one thing we've really loved about moving down here is there's a huge sense of community, and we've been doing loads of small business networking, which we've really enjoyed, met great people, and actually Brent starts lecturing at Falmouth University in a couple of weeks time, on video and moving image now, fantastic. Yeah. And so we're really trying to foster an easier way for students to gain creative experience with local businesses. And that's a big part of what we're doing down here, and we're really loving it.
Angela Nicholson
A lot of the business down there is based around tourism. So and people involved in tourism really understand the importance of marketing and having great images and video. So I guess you know, from that point of view, it's quite a good business move.
Kate Kirkman
Yeah, and there's often water based in some way. A lot of the hotels down here are on the coast or, you know, sports brands that work work with water. So we're managing to incorporate, finally, that huge element of what we love doing in our damn time. But you're right. I think certainly tourism business the bigger, the bigger brands understand the importance, but we do find a lot of small business desperately need great content, but either can't afford it or don't put it as a priority spend. And that's how we're trying to involve Falmouth and students. We're trying to bring these two worlds together to help students get experience and to help small businesses get better content. So that's a real focus for us, because there's a lot of people down here that need better content that have not been getting it to date.
Angela Nicholson
Plus it's a really nice opportunity to give back. But also, when you do that kind of thing, that education goes upwards as well as the level you're teaching, doesn't it?
Kate Kirkman
Yeah, it's honestly we realize now we really didn't have a brilliant sense of local community where we lived, which was in bucks, and it's totally different down here. People are pretty, very passionate about where they live, very passionate about sustainability, and, yeah, it's such a really lovely, unexpected part of the move.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, good. And the boudoir business. I mean, when you said, oh, people are flying down here, I immediately thought, what a genius move. Because what a nice way to spend a weekend, you know, maybe do a bit of surfing or something. Maybe have the boudoirl shoot before the surfing, I would say.
Kate Kirkman
Yeah. I would definitely say, so yeah, but no, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's brilliant. And actually, it's so quick, it's less than an hour in the air from from Gatwick. And yeah, people are coming down and asking me for recommendations about nice places to stay, and they're making a weekend of it. So you're right. It really is, you know, and I just didn't know, and I didn't have necessary high expectations for whether it would continue down here. But so far so good.
Angela Nicholson
Nice. Now, I know, well, Brent is a videographer. You've been shooting more video recently, too. What led you to start making that move?
Kate Kirkman
It was demand. And I honestly got that one wrong, because Brent, early on, was the one that said it's so important that we we evolve and develop this side of the business. And I, didn't see it. I mean, we're now talking, gosh, you know, eight years ago, but it's probably, we probably shoot more video now than we do photography. And really, that's what we said to Falmouth, because we spoke to the tutor that leads the commercial degree course, and up to date, up to now, they haven't involved video, and we just said, you know, it's honestly, that's not okay. It's essential. And so we, yeah, we shoot video across everything, you know, all genres, including boudoir, actually, but more on the marketing promotional side than for clouds.
Angela Nicholson
So it was purely a business move, or did you want to move in that direction as well creatively.
Kate Kirkman
Ah, I think Brent absolutely wanted to go that way. He's always had a greater interest in in moving image, and for me, it was about business. But I love it and I love it for different reasons. And I get asked quite a lot which I prefer, and I love, I love filming. I don't do the editing. Brent does. And so I think it's very easy for me to say that I love it for that reason, and he doesn't do any of the photography editing. I do all of that. So I am very aware of how much time is and skill is needed for video editing, and also, if you start incorporating audio, then you're going to a whole new level of of complexity. And so I don't think that's for everybody.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, whenever I've edited video, there always seems to be an edit that you can make tighter. You keep going, but you start off, you've got say you've got an hour of footage, and you get it down to five minutes, and then you could easily get it down to four and then before you know it, you've got a two minute video, just keep going.
Kate Kirkman
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And but to get a two minute video that holds attention is harder than people might imagine, because you've got like five seconds of someone's time these days, it's not easy.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, yeah. Do you enjoy it creatively, or do you find it, you know, is it a slog actually, filming?
Kate Kirkman
No, I love it. I actually think it's much easier to explore stories and emotion through video. Much easier. It is more forgiving. Yeah, people can come in and out of focus on video and people go, Oh, that's nice. But, you know, you you miss a frame in a still and it hits the bin. So it's definitely easier to, I think, work with humans and video.
Angela Nicholson
But if you're doing a wedding, does it require a lot more planning to get the video?
Kate Kirkman
Yeah, because we were really multi camera at our weddings, we might have four or five different cameras running. And it's obviously more complex in terms of lighting and telling a story, you can't. It's like telling a story really can't miss bits, but there's a lot to think about. It's much easier if you're not, if you're not taking audio or you're taking an audio feed. It's just bit scary at times, and writings are scary anyway. So we're just adding a whole another level of stress. Yeah. I mean, we really are, honestly that it makes a stressful event more stressful.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, and I don't think a lot of people realise the significance of using a mic until they start using a mic.
Kate Kirkman
And, you know, honestly, we, when we speak to clients, you know, we offer people just what we call the wedding highlights, so set to license music, yeah, or we can obviously take audio for, say, speeches or ceremony, and, you know, some make that decision, and it's always based on budget, which I understand, to not have the audio. And we are very clear why. Because it's not so much about the recording of the day, it's all the post production work. But we've had clients, you know, brides come back and say, 'Oh, I know I didn't book that package, but can we have the speeches audio', you know, trying to explain to them that. Well, we have it on on the base camera bodies, but it's rubbish, yeah, and yeah, it's that understanding afterwards. But be absolutely right until you've had to take audio feeds. You don't understand how hard it is.
Angela Nicholson
So what's getting you excited about photography and video these days?
Kate Kirkman
Oh, that's a good question, because I think just staying relevant for everybody is, you know, something that people spend a lot of time thinking about. And for us, you know, we're really lucky that we get to work with Sony, because we do get our hands on new kit. And actually, just before Christmas they, you know, you get these magic calls when they're all NDA'd up, you know, we, we got the new A1 II and, well, the new lenses, and you get them for like, three days, yeah, but that was honestly magic, just to use the kind of best kit that comes onto the market, and, you know, the need kind of 28 to 70 that the new Sony it is. It's probably the first time I've got thoroughly excited about a lens, because, after you know, photography, something to do with the formats or the whatever the new camera bodies delivering, but which was incredible. But this time, both Brent and I really were blown away by lens. And that's just really nice.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, I've used it as well. And the difference between f2 and 2.8 is much bigger than it sounds, isn't it?
Kate Kirkman
It's huge in terms of light, isn't it, and speed and yeah, and we were obviously slightly concerned about just losing, you know, that focal length slightly, but really didn't notice it. Yeah, it was incredible. But, you know, also working at the 120 FPS in terms of 4k because we were lucky, we got to put all this content out, because we did it just for Christmas, but we found the most amazing shipwreck in Cornwall, and we went down, and it was it was really hairy. It was full on storm offshore, so the winds were hectic. It was a bit dangerous, if I'm honest. But you couldn't really have got any better conditions in terms of sea and light. And we were shooting, you know, the 120 frames and the slow mo on the water, it's just incredible. And actually, you see better than human. Human see, yeah, and when you're slowing it all down, it was quite mesmerizing. So, yeah, it was really lovely to sit back here after shooting and genuinely love seeing the content and just go, yeah, getting excited again. And I think that's it. That got both of us excited.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, nice. So you're going to the photography and video show at the XL in March, yeah, March, the eighth to the 11th, isn't it?
Kate Kirkman
That's it!
Angela Nicholson
What have you got planned?
Kate Kirkman
So we're there all four days.
Angela Nicholson
Uh huh, me too.
Kate Kirkman
Yeah, brilliant. Well, we'll see you. We're there with Sony, and they obviously wanting us to be on the stand. And we're talking about a lot of hybrid, which is for Brent and I that's how we describe ourselves. Now it's 100% we're shooting both video and photography, taking stills out of video, so talking about that. But actually, I know that Sony are keen to release us to maybe come and spend some time with SheClicks. So
Angela Nicholson
Fantastic.
Kate Kirkman
You know, we need to talk about that. But yeah, whether we come over to the stand or, you know, organize something
Angela Nicholson
Yeah.
Kate Kirkman
you know, I like talking at the show, doing the talks. But actually, more than anything, it's quite nice to sit down with photographers and and videographers and try and give back. So if we can make something work, that would be amazing.
Angela Nicholson
That sounds fantastic. Thank you. Well, that's probably a really good time to go to Six from SheClicks,
Kate Kirkman
Right.
Angela Nicholson
I've got 10 questions from SheClickers,
Kate Kirkman
Okay
Angela Nicholson
and I would like you to answer six of them, please. You've done this before.
Kate Kirkman
I have.
Angela Nicholson
They're all different questions. So could you pick numbers from one to 10, six numbers. So let's start with your first number, please.
Kate Kirkman
Right. Let's go for number one.
Angela Nicholson
Number one. Okay, right. This is a question that was asked by quite a lot of people. Actually, if you could give your younger self some advice. What would it be? And that could be careers advice, it could be technical advice. It could be something broader, like marry a videographer, who knows Several people asked that.
Kate Kirkman
Yeah, that have been asked that before. I think my answer might might be slightly different now. I think what I would say to my younger self is, do you fully understand the pros and cons of being self employed whilst raising a small family? Because, and in many ways, there may be more cons than there are pros. And I can give you, I'll give you some some kind of, some of those pointers now, and I'm going to start with the cons, just because, you know, let's, let's go hard.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, break it to us.
Kate Kirkman
It's not that I'm saying, Ddon't do it. I'm, gosh, now, 15 years in business, it's more, are you fully aware of of all of it before you make the that decision. And then one of the most obvious ones is obviously the the weekend and evening work you do, certainly as a wedding photographer, kind of lose your summers. And that is partly why Brent and I, are now living in Cornwall. Crazily, it's because we will go to the beach on a Tuesday evening, a Wednesday evening, a Thursday you know, we now have our summer in a weird way, but at least we have one, because really we didn't. And I just think that if you're trying to raise a young family as well, you've really got to think about all of that missing kids stuff at weekends, kids clubs, all that kind of thing. Definitely the work life blur is hard, the lack of switching off, and definitely, for Brent and I, having an office that is not in the house has been critical. So we've just built another garden office here, big investment, but one that we know was really important. So I think that you need some separation. Obviously, income is unpredictable, and I think there are quiet like, this is a bad month in terms of income for us, but then, you know, there are other months where, you know, it's the opposite. So I think you just have to be aware of the the changes across the year, obvious stuff like limited benefits, you know, sick pay, you know, all that kind of thing. You've just got to make sure that you have thought about it. Yeah, managing the business, and I did all on my own at first, and that is almost impossible, but the software and everything makes that easier these days. But I think if the amount of time you spend running a business is huge. So I think just if you're not interested, maybe think again, you know, because you've really got to do it all somehow, and that there are ways to manage that. And then I think we've already touched on it, this pressure to stay relevant is hard. But actually, I would say, think about who you're staying relevant for, whether it's your peers in the industry or whether it's actually your clients, because they're very different expectations of what relevant means. So those are some of the negatives.
Angela Nicholson
Okay.
Kate Kirkman
There are many positives. And I think the reverse of me saying you don't, you can lose your summers is actually, ironically, you do have flexibility in your schedule, because I could, or we do take a Monday off. Or, you know, we, or if we suddenly decide not only to the office till midday,
Angela Nicholson
Yeah.
Kate Kirkman
or we're going to work till midnight, then we do do that. That's easy as your kids get older.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah.
Kate Kirkman
Or probably you might. Be slightly reliant on your partner being able to fill in the gaps for you. You definitely, there's definitely this wonderful element of pursuing a passion which is probably or turning a passion into business. Think there's, there's good and bad size to that. But definitely, I feel like I've done that in my life. And again, the flip side of the instable or unstable income is there is no ceiling on said income. So if you work hard and you know you do well and you're successful, you can earn really well from it. I think it's just about managing the peaks and the troughs of all of that. Yeah, I think it's really have a really varied work life. We never, honestly, one week to next, we don't know what we're shooting, and we constantly get lovely surprises. We're off to Barcelona with with Sony Europe, and in March, just after the show, to go and train the, weirdly, the Nordic the Scandinavians in video. And, you know, only found that just before Christmas, and that's great. And I think a really important one for me has been setting an example for my kids about hard work and what what you can get back, and the fact that running your own business is an option, and resilience, and just teaching the resilience, and yeah, now I think there's a lot of brilliant life lessons in there. And so, yeah, I don't, I hope that hasn't come across as negative. I just, you know, I don't think I thought about all of that when I, when I started out.
Angela Nicholson
I think when you're starting out, it's very hard to take on board some of those negative messages. Because you think, you know, I love photography,
Kate Kirkman
Yeah.
Angela Nicholson
it's going to be brilliant. I'm going to get some great clients. It's all going to be fine. And then suddenly, you know, like you're saying you are responsible for everything, so you are doing the marketing,
Kate Kirkman
Yeah.
Angela Nicholson
You're also emptying the bins, and, you know, doing all of those sorts of stuff, and making sure the batteries are charged. So there are a lot of things to consider, but if you have that passion and you are interested in the technicalities in the kit, then that helps you stay relevant as well, because you stay interested in developments, don't you?
Kate Kirkman
Definitely, I think that's really important. You've got to keep learning.
Angela Nicholson
Okay. I thought that you might say that the thing you would have liked to the advice you would have given yourself, is to learn about flash, because I remember you said, you used to say you were a natural or an ambient light photographer, and then you learned flash, and it was like a revelation. So I thought you might say that, but was that what you used to say?
Kate Kirkman
Well, but yeah, and I think that depending on, I don't know what questions you in front of me, but I normally questions come up around technical, know how, and confidence, and that's where I will talk about it, because I still think it's absolutely critical. But actually that is just one part of it. And what I've tried to give in that answer is a sense of, have you really thought about all the pros and all the cons of running your own business?
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, okay, write a list maybe.
Kate Kirkman
Yeah.
Angela Nicholson
Be prepared to make it a long one.
Kate Kirkman
I was quite a long answer. Sorry. It would all be that long.
Angela Nicholson
That's alright, no, no. So could I have your second number, please?
Kate Kirkman
Let's go four .
Kate Kirkman
How do you navigate imposter syndrome, especially in an industry where self promotion is important, yet can also be daunting. That question is from Pru.
Kate Kirkman
Okay Pru, so I think imposter syndrome is rife across all all businesses and all industries, not even just for creators. So I think the first thing for everybody to think is that those feelings are normal, and also that it is a feeling. Think it's really important to for people to actually understand that also it's Who are you comparing yourself against? And is it a fair comparison? So let's say you're comparing yourself to peers. Let's say within SheClicks community, you're seeing somebody else's work or or, you know, is that a fair comparison? Have you been, you know, doing this, you're doing this thing, this beautiful craft of photography, for as long have you done your 10,000 hours? You know, are you being fair to yourself? Because I think a lot of imposter syndrome comes from unfair comparisons. So I really think it's very important to just take stock for a second and work out if you're making yourself feel a certain way unnecessarily. And then I think this okay. So this comes back to confidence, because if once you try to analyze why you're feeling like this, if it is coming down to a lack of confidence, which often imposter syndrome does, then can that be in any way solved by addressing the problem. So let's say you've been tasked with standing up and giving a presentation, then you need to try and understand what's worrying you about that process, and if it is about your technical skills. So this, this is exactly coming to what we've just discussed. Then. And for me, I realized very early on that my confidence was entirely related to my technical skills, and that once I actually faced it, solved it and learned then my confidence levels grew kind of exponentially, really, and I went into shoots confidence. So I think, I think this that try to differentiate between a feeling and whether you're unfairly comparing yourself, versus Is there something you need to address in your learning? And if there is honestly, just get on with it and and get it solved, because it will make a big difference.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, there is a tendency, I think when there is something like that, we think, Oh, it's going to be really hard. I don't really understand it. There's a lot of that. But once you actually start it, it's such a relief. It doesn't seem so bad. And you kind of plough through it. And then the feeling when you have achieved, say, you know, if it is learning flash, for example, then, and you take a picture with Flash, and you think that you that's pretty good. That's so nice, isn't it?
Kate Kirkman
Yeah, it makes all and yeah, the wedding that Brent and I shot on, it was for a friend, but still, it was one of the hardest ever done. It was just on, but we used flash from the prep of the wedding through to and she had a Hindu blessing that the day after the light was just absolutely shocking in London f or two days. And you are constantly thinking, it is a bit of a brain drain flash, but you can always solve it, always. And that's the thing. It is just like a maths equation. Without being maths, it's just, you know, you can just try things, and there's always, there's always an answer. So I think you're absolutely right. Until you understand what the parameters are, it's always going to feel deeply confusing and impossible. But once you understand the parameters, you'll be fine.
Angela Nicholson
Okay.
Kate Kirkman
Oh, and to that, to the set to the self promotion thing, how? Yeah, well, that one's a really interesting one, because, honest to God, I think try to work out the self promotion that works for you rather than what you see on social media. Because I realized very early on, I find the whole thing deeply distasteful, and it's not for me. Therefore I don't really do it, and I know that I've worked out what my clients need and what they need to see in order to have the confidence to book me, rather than me constantly talking on social media. So I think there'll be a solution that's right for everybody, and they've just got to try and find, find what that looks like.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, I remember a few years ago, everyone was saying, Oh, you definitely need to have an Instagram account. You definitely need to have a Facebook account. In fact, you don't need a website. You just need Facebook. And now I feel like there are so many social media outlets that a website seems to be even more important. Because actually, even if you've got all of those platforms, you know you're doing something on any all of those platforms, your website has the links them all. It's got everything. So it's a hub that just seems more important to me now.
Kate Kirkman
Yeah, I agree. And also, you're never going to hold anyone's attention for very long and on any of these other platforms. And I think you're right, and I think they need to be a pointer into some way that people could spend a bit more time getting to know you and your work. Yeah. I mean, you got to get different answers from everyone on this. I'm just not, I'm not a big sell promoter, so, and it's not, it's not stop me running successful businesses.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, right? Canon I have your third number, please?
Kate Kirkman
Five.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, how difficult was it to become a preferred supplier for Ashridge or any other venue for that matter, that question is from Marie-Ange.
Kate Kirkman
Good question. For our wedding business, it was very important, I would say there's been two main sources of work. One is word of mouth, but that obviously takes time, and the other has been venues. And actually those venues have changed over the 15 years. So one stage, Blenheim Palace, was critical to us, and Ashridge still is and remains our most important venue, although there are others. But how hard is it to get in? It's hard the first time the first wedding is tough. And actually, I would say, probably I got the first weddings through my relationships with other industry suppliers, so that might be a florist or a wedding planner. So I've always said, and I always will say, try to build really strong relationships within your your local circle of other small businesses. So and then, once you've got that first wedding, a you know, do the best you possibly can, but then try and build really good relationships with the team who run. The weddings, and the problem is, there tends to be high turnover. So I think a lot of people have probably found this, they've built a great relationship with the wedding coordinator, and suddenly they're gone.
Angela Nicholson
Right
Kate Kirkman
Yeah, it can be really frustrating, but just make yourself just always be aware that all these venues need great content, and be prepared to, in essence, give your time for free. I've always done it. I still don't mind doing it if I if I think I'm going to get a long term relationship or return from it. So, you know, just to kind of sum that up, I would say, yes, it's very important work hard at trying to build those relationships, and it hopefully will bear fruit for you.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, your fourth number, please?
Kate Kirkman
Err seven
Angela Nicholson
How do you balance the need for time with the couple for post shots with other demands on them during the day? Do you just have one session with them, or do you have several shorter sessions that questions from Liz.
Kate Kirkman
Okay. Liz, I would say that the answer to that will come down to your style. If you present yourself and your brand as being a lot about kind of beautiful couple portraiture, rather than, say, photo journalism or candids, then you stand very strong by that. Because if you don't carve out that time, you are not delivering to your promise, your brand promise. So as a result of that being a major part of what we do, I insist on finalizing the schedule with the bride and groom. I spend quite a lot of time with my couples in advance of a wedding, just going through schedules, because often I am given timelines, and I am not afraid to question them and actually just say, you know, I can't deliver what you want based on this. And you know, I'm not. We're not prima donna-ish about it. We're just saying I can't, I can't do it. We tend to say we need 45 minutes in all now I don't necessarily need that in one go, and certainly in the summer, I would like to split it up to somewhere in the drinks reception to go now, but, and you know, I've been caught up before. You must make sure you get all safe stuff in your first session with them, because you can lose the light. You know, in this country, the weather changes so fast and all speech is just overrun and you're standing there watching, you know, the Sunday down outside. So it is a risk to split your time. Always make sure you have got enough before you make that commitment. But for us, it needs to be about 45 minutes. I don't always get it, but they do know if I don't get 45 minutes that they can't expect nervous.
Angela Nicholson
Do you actually have that in your contract? You know, if basically if you decide that you want to spend more time with your guests than photographing, then things will change.
Kate Kirkman
Yeah, I just say that, you know, there's we have an understanding of the time that we need, and if that gets affected by the schedule of the you're running late of the schedule, then that will have an impact on their deliverables.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, Okay, that's fair enough. All right, so your penultimate number, please?
Kate Kirkman
Ooo, I would say, eight.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, how do you balance the technical mastery required in photography with the emotional and creative storytelling element that question is from Sarah.
Kate Kirkman
You see, Sarah we've come back to the technical again, which is as it should be, all I would say absolutely categorically that the technical stuff needs to come first. So I first worry about the how I'm going to capture something in terms of light. Number one, that's whether I'm going to use natural light or I'm going to have to light it. And I make a plan. And once I learn what my plan is and how I'm going to execute, if you like, then I can put my soul energy into emotion and storytelling and and I even tout now, this was really important to be clear. I think I've noticed over the years, a lot of photographers worry about the speed at which they're working. They feel like to them a minute, you know, which is a minute to the client, feels like 10 minutes to the client. It doesn't. And just don't be afraid to be very clear with your client and say, just chat amongst yourselves. I just need to sort out my exposure, or I just need to make plan. Or this is complex. Can you just give me a minute, and as long as you give them permission to not just stare at you or hold the smile or hold the pose, then they won't notice at all, and they'll be quite happy to have those relaxing moments in between. So the minute I then. Start to if you like direct in any way, or request energy from them. I am not thinking about the technical anymore, because if you rush that, and you're trying to do both because you feel like you should be something's going to be wrong. You're going to have your shutter speed wrong. Something will be off, and you won't get the results that you need. But I think it's a real lesson to be able to say things down, tell them that you are doing something that doesn't involve them, and then asking for their energy when you're ready.
Angela Nicholson
That's a really good point about telling your client basically stand at ease, because I have witnessed somebody continuing to grin at the photographer
Kate Kirkman
Always.
Angela Nicholson
While, the photograph is clearly doing something else, and you can see that grin getting harder and harder, and then, and then suddenly, the cameras up and they're taking a photo, and it looks terrible.
Kate Kirkman
And it's gone the Yeah, they've literally lost all momentum and all or that, because you really only get a couple of seconds of natural before anybody goes into kind of that rig a hold. And I think a lot of photographers are so so immersed in the technical that they lose sight of how that feels to the client. You know what? They rush, yeah, don't lie. You rushed in the early days. And then you get back and you'd realize you've made some stupid error, some basic you haven't checked your shutter speed on a longer lens, whatever it is, and then you're off. And you know, it's just, it's never as long as it feels to you. Ever
Angela Nicholson
Does it get easier over the years with practice?
Kate Kirkman
Yeah. I mean, yeah, I don't I now I just say it's like getting in a car and driving for for us, we we really, largely don't think at all about the technical. Doesn't mean I don't always check, but this last wedding was particularly tough because, you know, I was really having to push flash, really push it, and so there was a lot of thinking involved at speed. So what that, I hope, is telling all of you that don't ever think everybody's just got it good photographers are still thinking, and if then you know as they should be, it's a skill. It's not something that you don't have one minute and you have the next. It's constantly something, yeah, we will have off days. Let's also be honest about that. There are days I find it tougher to shoot, yeah, than other days. And that's just, could be from a personal reasons, health reasons, whatever reasons, some days I have to work harder than others. Yeah, I guess there's lots of changes, you know, variability because of the venue as well. You know, particularly if it's a new one that you've not been to before. I think I get also that often actually questions like that, about about worrying about shooting a venue that you've never shot before. And actually what I would say to people is that was me in the early days, and in fact, I would go and and I would do recces, and I would I make plans. And honestly, that's the I don't think that's healthy, because things happen that are outside your control. So the best thing you can do is be as confident as you can to deliver professional, standard imagery under any circumstances, so that if you suddenly can't go outside because of the weather's bad, or you suddenly can't shoot in the room, you thought you could shoot and you don't go into meltdown, you just think, fine, I'm just going to make a different plan. And actually, what Brent and I do day in day out is problem solve, and we problem solve on the spot. And really, that's your job, I think. And so all the arsenal that you can have to problem solve fast and well, will make you a better photographer, right?
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, yeah. It's about having all those sort of like tools in your bag, isn't it? So one problem, oh, we'll get that. Problem, oh, we'll get that. We'll do this.
Kate Kirkman
Totally. And I think that's it. We always take so much more kit than we need, and I'm never someone to overuse it if I don't need to, but I like to know it's there.
Kate Kirkman
Yeah. So your final number, please?
Angela Nicholson
Well, I guess is that 10.
Kate Kirkman
Okay, let's go for number 10.
Angela Nicholson
How do you manage all of the aspects of your business, or do they all just mesh seamlessly? That questions from Janina.
Kate Kirkman
I don't think they mesh seamlessly. I wish. I wish they did. Um, okay, so I don't know what the stats are, but I reckon, well, I know that I shoot less than 10% of the time, so obviously that's that the state then take out the post production element. It still tells you that there's an enormous amount of time spent running a business and over the years, and this has definitely been with the help of my husband Brent, but we have streamlined and automated as much as we can, and there is software constantly appearing that is helping on that process. And I honestly think that all the software, like any software, takes a long time to, say, set up or learn that there is a time investment up front, but that is massively time saving long term. So for example, I'm still a huge fan of studio ninja, and I'm constantly updating it. I. And thinking, Gosh, I could add, I could add that into the workflow, or I could rewrite that email to make it better. So I don't know what to do without studio ninja, to be perfectly frank. And then we've obviously, we use software for accounting and everything. I think now, the the, the, probably the, the newest thing on the horizon for us is actually AI, and we are using AI, I get asked that a lot now, and for me, it's been about culling and the initial, what I'd call the grunt edit, which I used to send off anyway for a wedding. Certainly it's problematic for me, because I'm a complete control freak and bit of a perfectionist. So it's not, it's not an E, it's not easy, but it is without question, time saving, and I'm but I've still got the controls very much geared towards personal input, but I am trying always to be more efficient, and that's what I would say to all of you. Otherwise you will slightly lose the will to live, and it will, it will drain you of your personal life.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah. Well, now you're down in Cornwall, and you've got this wonderful community around you and the beach just down the road. Do you find it easier to let go? You've got that draw?
Kate Kirkman
Yeah, yeah, totally. And I think what we found Brent, and I complete Water Babies is that when we had downtime. We weren't necessarily in a place where we could make the most of it. So we've moved somewhere where we can do what we love doing very fast. And I think that's we, you know, after being so long in this industry and knowing that we give up so much in terms of a lot of other people's personal lives and downtime, weekends and everything that that was critical for us, because we just didn't have the balance right at all. So yeah, if we still shoot weekends, that's fine. Now we know we can go to the beach in the evening. Really, what I would say is make running the business and the time you don't spend shooting as efficient and automated as you possibly can. Make it work for you, basically.
Kate Kirkman
Yeah, definitely.
Angela Nicholson
Great. Well, Kate, thank you so much for answering all those questions. I'm really looking forward to seeing you at The Photography Show.
Kate Kirkman
Yeah, can't wait. And just to reiterate, if we can, you know, in any way, help the community, and you know, be able to do this in person with people and let us know. We'd be very happy to.
Angela Nicholson
That would be great. Thanks very much. Bye, bye.
Kate Kirkman
Bye.
Angela Nicholson
Thanks for listening to this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. You'll find links to Kate's website and social media channels in the show notes. Special thanks to everyone who sent in a question. I'll be back with another episode soon. So please subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, X, Instagram and YouTube if you search for SheClicks net. So until next time, enjoy your photography.
